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  #111  
Old 12-03-2020, 11:39 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
Saying that national Israel was God’s church, is like saying that all of religious Christianity is the Church. Many are called but few are chosen. The Old Testament Israel was priveleged with the oracles of God, but like the nations of the world today, most of them where sinners justifying themselves for being the seed of Abraham.
I don't think you fully read what I have been posting. All this was accounted for. "Not all are Israel who are of Israel."
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  #112  
Old 12-03-2020, 11:43 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Did God divorce spiritual Israel or Natural Israel?.
He divorced the northern kingdom of Israel, the ten tribed nation headquartered at Samaria, overrun by the Assyrians in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. The same prophecies say they would be sought by God and redeemed and remarried to Him, would be called the sons of the living God, would be shown mercy, and would unite with their brethren the house of Judah under Messiah (in the new covenant). Paul said this was happening in his day.
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  #113  
Old 12-03-2020, 11:50 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

I’m not saying this about Esaias.

I know preachers and saints that believe Old Nation of Israel is going to come back to God the Father, while the Church is the bride of Christ.
The doctrine that there are two different Israels, one being the old testament people descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the other being a new testament religious organisation, is the basis for such belief. It is inherently trinitarian, as you can see.

It really reveals that modern Christendom - including much of modern oneness Pentecostalism - is a non Biblical non-monotheistic religious movement. Even those who claim to be staunch monotheists reveal their claim is not entirely true, because in PRACTICE they have one God in the old testament with a people and a religion, and ANOTHER God in the new testament with a ANOTHER people and ANOTHER religion.

God is ONE. His Plan has been the same from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus did not come to undo everything God did before, scrapping it all, and starting afresh with some wholly new thing, going in a wholly new direction. Yet, that is what modern Christendom believes. It's no different than the gnostics who claimed the God of the old testament was the demiurge and Jesus came to undo everything Jehovah had done.

Might as well completely tear out 3/4ths of the Bible because it is now irrelevent except for flannelgraph lessons for Sunday School children's entertainment.
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Last edited by Esaias; 12-03-2020 at 11:52 AM.
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  #114  
Old 12-03-2020, 11:57 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

The modern errorists insist upon a clearly unbiblical narrative: "God had a bride in the old testament, Israel, but He divorced her and took a completely different bride in the new testament, the Church."

Sorry, but that is completely unbiblical. God had a bride in the old testament, Israel, and yes He divorced her. But He promised she would be brought back to Him.


And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
(Hos 2:19-20)
God is promising to betroth someone to Himself. Who is He going to marry?

He is saying He will marry "thee". Who is the "thee" being spoken to? Whoever He is speaking to, whoever is the "thee", is the "who" that God intends to marry.
And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
(Hos 2:23)
He is going to marry a people. A people who "had not obtained mercy". A people who were "not my people". Who is this?

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
(1Pe 2:9-10)
Sound familiar? How about this:
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
(Rom 9:25-26)
Who is this? The church? Well, yes. But there's more to the story. Who is the church that God is prophesying He will marry? Who are the people who had not obtained mercy, who were not His people? Who is the "thee" and "her" in the prophecy of Hosea chapter 2? Who is God saying He is going to marry?

And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
(Hos 1:6-11)
The "thee" and "her" that God says He is going to betroth to Himself, the one He is saying He will marry, is none other than ISRAEL. That is the one to whom it was said "Ye are NOT MY PEOPLE" but who would be restored and called "sons of the living God". That is the one who had not received mercy, but who would be given mercy. That is the one who would be married to God.

The "bride" is ISRAEL UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.

He could not remarry His wife after divorcing her and she being married to a heathen god. That would be SIN - transgression of the law. And He is without sin. So, He incarnated as a man and DIED, freeing His wife from her prior bondage, and resurrected so she could in fact REMARRY Him. She dies in baptism, to be raised as a new creature, a virgin espoused to Christ, who is JEHOVAH HIMSELF.

Now, the dispensationalist and other futurists will insist that this promised marriage of Israel to God is "still future". It will "happen in the mil-age" or right before, during, or immediately after the tribulation.

But what does the BIBLE say?

When this betrothing occurs, it includes Israel being told they are God's people and children of the living God. Paul said it was happening in HIS DAY!
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
(Rom 9:22-26)
Do you see it? Paul said that prophecy in Hosea (which I referenced in the previous post) was being fulfilled in HIS DAY! The prophecy began to find its fulfillment in the first century, with the spreading of the Gospel. It is NOT a prophecy waiting for some as yet unknown time to come to pass. It has been coming to pass! From the time of Christ's earthly ministry, His resurrection, the outpouring on Pentecost, the conversion of Cornelius and the entrance of the first gentiles into the new covenant, on through Paul's ministry... the woman who had not had mercy and who had been told she was not God's people was being betrothed to God through Christ, she was obtaining mercy, being identified as the children of the living God. IT BEGAN IN THE FIRST CENTURY!
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(Eph 2:11-22)
It's all right here in this brief passage. The gentiles, who were uncircumcised, were "strangers from the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL." But in Christ they have been made FELLOWCITIZENS. That means they are part of ISRAEL. And who are these people, these citizens of Israel? The "holy temple", the "habitation of God through the Spirit."

In other words, THE NEW COVENANT CHURCH.

The church is the commonwealth of Israel, operating under the terms of the New Covenant, under the headship of Christ. The church is not a wholly separate entity from Israel. It is not a replacement. It is not a "new Israel", that is to say, a new entity that has taken the title of Israel. Israel entered the new covenant, and is now called "the church".

Israel has always been the church:
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
(Act 7:38)
The "church" is the called out people of God. It is the "congregation" of the LORD. That would be Israel. In the wilderness Israel was called "the church in the wilderness", thus proving the church is in fact Israel.

There are not two churches, with two different destinies and two different prophetic programs guiding their course in this world. There is only one church, ONE BODY.

In the old testament it was Israel under the old covenant. In the new testament it is Israel under the new covenant.

God did not abandon His bride, though she be unfaithful. He has RESTORED her to Himself:
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
(Luk 1:46-55)
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  #115  
Old 12-03-2020, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

Many mistakenly believe the church is a separate entity from Israel. That is incorrect. The church is the 12 tribes of Israel which have entered the new covenant. The church has always been Israel since the Exodus, and still is. Israel is the BRIDE:

Jeremiah 3:12-14 KJV
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord ; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord ; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Israel was divorced by God:

Isaiah 50:1 KJV
Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
Jeremiah 3:6-8 KJV
The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. [7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. [8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israel was to be restored under Messiah:

Hosea 1:9-11 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. [11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

This began to be fulfilled in the first century new covenant ekklesia:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

So the church is in fact reclaimed Israel, operating under the new covenant:

Ephesians 2:12-13 KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The church is a part of Israel, it is that part which has entered the new covenant and which holds legal title to the name of Israel as the betrothed of God. It is described here:

Revelation 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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  #116  
Old 12-03-2020, 04:19 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 forbids remarrying your exwife.
Now I know you aren't actually reading what I've been posting. How is that people get involved in a discussion, and attempt to argue against someone, without even reading what that someone is saying? I literally can't comprehend it, it makes no sense to me.

Here's what I said earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Paul explained how the law has authority over a person until they die. So that a woman, married to a man, if she leaves her husband and shacks up or "marries" another man is an adulteress. Why? Because she is bound by the law to her first husband. But what happens if the husband dies? According to Paul and common sense, she is loosed from her first husband and is free to marry another.

Israel's husband incarnated and DIED. She was free from her first marriage. Is she free to marry somebody else? A pagan god? Her husband RESURRECTED so she could REMARRY HIM.

The Law says:
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
(Deu 24:1-4)
The first husband had to die (and raise again) in order for God to reclaim His Bride. She had to be released from the law of marriage that prevented their reunion. Moreover, SHE has to die as well, which is what baptism is all about.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Rom 7:4)
YOU EVEN QUOTED THIS POST IN ONE OF YOUR RESPONSES! Yet you are recently posting as if you have a "gotcha" moment, as if I hadn't ever addressed this whole issue of God forbidding men from remarrying their former wives, if they had divorced that wife and she got married to another guy, and then the second husband dies or puts her away.

I mean, seriously, I do not understand this. I specifically posted the commandment regarding remarriage to a former spouse, and specifically pointed out how Paul taught clearly that such prohibition ceases if the first husband (or the woman) DIES. And then pointed out how Christ's death is EXACTLY what was needed, as is our death in baptism, in order for the new covenant to work.

I mean, really? People just pretend I never even mentioned it? And they bring it up as if to say "See? This proves you are wrong!" When I specifically addressed the very "objection" already? AND YOU QUOTED ME?????

I'm sorry, but this is really bothersome. It's like, why waste time talking when the other person isn't even listening anyway?
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  #117  
Old 12-03-2020, 04:26 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post

I'm sorry, but this is really bothersome. It's like, why waste time talking when the other person isn't even listening anyway?
I just had an epiphany.

Now I know what direction I need to be going in. I have other things taking place that demand my attention which are more profitable than spinning my wheels killing time on AFF with people who aren't even reading what they quote and respond to.

Mike, you can have your thread back. Sorry for the derailment.
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  #118  
Old 12-03-2020, 08:43 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Now I know you aren't actually reading what I've been posting. How is that people get involved in a discussion, and attempt to argue against someone, without even reading what that someone is saying? I literally can't comprehend it, it makes no sense to me.

Here's what I said earlier:



YOU EVEN QUOTED THIS POST IN ONE OF YOUR RESPONSES! Yet you are recently posting as if you have a "gotcha" moment, as if I hadn't ever addressed this whole issue of God forbidding men from remarrying their former wives, if they had divorced that wife and she got married to another guy, and then the second husband dies or puts her away.

I mean, seriously, I do not understand this. I specifically posted the commandment regarding remarriage to a former spouse, and specifically pointed out how Paul taught clearly that such prohibition ceases if the first husband (or the woman) DIES. And then pointed out how Christ's death is EXACTLY what was needed, as is our death in baptism, in order for the new covenant to work.

I mean, really? People just pretend I never even mentioned it? And they bring it up as if to say "See? This proves you are wrong!" When I specifically addressed the very "objection" already? AND YOU QUOTED ME?????

I'm sorry, but this is really bothersome. It's like, why waste time talking when the other person isn't even listening anyway?
I'm listening

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  #119  
Old 12-03-2020, 09:04 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
I'm listening

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  #120  
Old 12-03-2020, 09:55 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I just had an epiphany.

Now I know what direction I need to be going in. I have other things taking place that demand my attention which are more profitable than spinning my wheels killing time on AFF with people who aren't even reading what they quote and respond to.

Mike, you can have your thread back. Sorry for the derailment.
E I enjoyed reading your posts. Sometimes honestly something like a statement may jump out at me that causes me to respond prematurely. Sorry if I misunderstood. It has been long day for me also. I will try to do better tomorrow.
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