Mark Johnston Drops from UPCI, Garner Next??? - Page 16

*AQuietPlace* · #**151** 03-30-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

But, if the Bible is telling us to do something (short hair on men, veil or long hair on women), isn't that a distinction for us?

Of course, it doesn't make us saved. I am only staying saved as much as I submit myself to God. But, really, if the Bible is instructing us to do anything, it is a separation from what the world is doing. It is a mark for us, isn't it?

He wasn't telling them to do something different than the world was doing, he was telling them to DO what the world was doing. It wasn't a mark of separation - quite the opposite.

Socialite · #**152** 03-30-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

He wasn't telling them to do something different than the world was doing, he was telling them to DO what the world was doing. It wasn't a mark of separation - quite the opposite.

Profound point.

Pressing-On · #**153** 03-30-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Thus saith, PO.

It's not just the basis, it's the width, depth and breadth of it. It's all-encompassing.

Wearing sleeves to your elbows, requiring brown pantyhose only, no pants, and making sure you consciously go to great pains of looking different than the church down the street is not the sign of a disciple.... it's a sign though

I wasn't coming from the perspective of standards. But from the point of modesty, we do have a distinction set by the Word of God. We always seem to say or think that our outward appearance is not discussed, but was discussed.

And my opinion is that every man/woman should live by their convictions and I don't question someone's convictions. It's none of my business and my convictions are not anyone's business either.

Pressing-On · #**154** 03-30-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

He wasn't telling them to do something different than the world was doing, he was telling them to DO what the world was doing. It wasn't a mark of separation - quite the opposite.

I don't think so. That doesn't even make sense. The Apostles preached a distinction.

I'm sure the whole "world" wasn't doing this:

1 Timothy 2:9 "I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety," (NIV)

1 Timothy 2:9 "And I want women to be modest in their appearance." (NLT)

1 Timothy 2:9 "I would like for women to wear modest and sensible clothes." (CEV)

Socialite · #**155** 03-30-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't think so. That doesn't even make sense. The Apostles preached a distinction.

I'm sure the whole "world" wasn't doing this:

1 Timothy 2:9 "I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety," (NIV)

1 Timothy 2:9 "And I want women to be modest in their appearance." (NLT)

1 Timothy 2:9 "I would like for women to wear modest and sensible clothes." (CEV)

Yes, it makes sense. Paul's reference to what seems natural/normal, is appeal to not shaming the husband (not according to Church teaching, but social more), etc.

Our separation affects how we even clothe ourselves, though I'm not sure that's as glaring a recognition/contrast as many preach it, force it, command it to be.

Pressing-On · #**156** 03-30-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Yes, it makes sense. Paul's reference to what seems natural/normal, is appeal to not shaming the husband (not according to Church teaching, but social more), etc.

Our separation affects how we even clothe ourselves, though I'm not sure that's as glaring a recognition/contrast as many preach it, force it, command it to be.

Yes, I agree!

Esther · #**157** 03-30-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think everything we do and how we look is also involved. Not just love alone. That is, of course, the basis of everything - love. But, IMO, it's like the gifts of the spirit. We operate in them, but the basis of our operating is and needs to be centered in love.

Exactly.

Esther · #**158** 03-30-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

He wasn't telling them to do something different than the world was doing, he was telling them to DO what the world was doing. It wasn't a mark of separation - quite the opposite.

Somehow I don't think this is what you mean in the entire of not being different.

If you are saying they didn't dress different than the world, I for the most part agree with you. But a blanket be like the world is not what Jesus preached.

Pressing-On · #**159** 03-30-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

Somehow I don't think this is what you mean in the entire of not being different.

If you are saying they didn't dress different than the world, I for the most part agree with you. But a blanket be like the world is not what Jesus preached.

I think they may have dressed, somewhat, different or Timothy wouldn't have raised the issue and given the teaching that he did. It would be the same circumstances with us today. Two blouse choices - one low cut, one not. Two skirt choices - one short and tight, one not. Two pant choices - one tight and one not. Worldly and Christian choices. We make them today.

IMO, he wouldn't have said what he did if he wasn't contrasting the issue with what he saw as an outside influence. If everyone was dressing the same and it was all peachy keen, I don't think Timothy would have addressed what he wanted from them.

mfblume · #**160** 03-30-2011, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Quote:

Originally Posted by AQuietPlace

He wasn't telling them to do something different than the world was doing, he was telling them to DO what the world was doing. It wasn't a mark of separation - quite the opposite.

I don't think so. That doesn't even make sense. The Apostles preached a distinction.

As far as 1 Cor 11 is concerned, the world WAS doing that, though. The custom of everyone in that part of the world was a woman wearing a veil to indicate submission. And Paul also noted that any woman felt it was a shame to be bald, in the world or not.