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  #261  
Old 07-18-2018, 07:38 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
Time changes things...
Yes, it does. After experiencing the divorce courts for myself, talking with several divorcees, and seeing more and more conservative pastors voice concern over the institution of civil marriage as provided by the government, the issue became one in which I couldn't refute their point. True religious liberty would allow for any faith to have strictly religious marriages. It would also allow any faith to not participate in civil marriage if said faith determines that the statutes of civil marriage violate their religious principles. Consider this angle, it is the freedom to be married in the eyes of God without involving a government program that has unbiblical marriage statutes, and affirms gay marriage. Not to mention, some churches and Christian sects have historically taken the admonition not to be bound in any way to go before unbelieving courts very seriously (for example the Quakers).

Some good sources on the topic can be found at these links:
The Marriage Pledge
https://www.firstthings.com/marriage-pledge
The Case for Getting Government out of the Marriage Business
http://westernfreepress.com/2015/06/...iage-business/

Opinion: True marriage equality is government free
http://thenewpolitical.com/2013/03/2...vernment-free/

When it comes to marriage, government should divorce itself
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...ce-itself.html
It should be noted that religious marriage covenants that are "government free" are more than just "shacking up". Legal measures to secure various rights are necessary. For example a couple should have all powers of attorney, cohabitation agreements, and wills in place to properly determine rights involving finances and their rights to property.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-18-2018 at 08:10 AM.
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  #262  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:08 AM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Consider this angle, it is the freedom to be married in the eyes of God without involving a government program that has unbiblical marriage statutes, and affirms gay marriage.
Lol now you want to go conservative when it fits you the best.. Those links are all about worldly people, let's allow them to define the covenant of marriage. If it's for health benefits you go super liberal, but when it comes to something you have no want to adhere to, you go ultra con huh? That's ridiculous Aquila.. (Drop mic, exit stage left..) Carry on..
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  #263  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:24 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
Lol now you want to go conservative when it fits you the best.. Those links are all about worldly people, let's allow them to define the covenant of marriage. If it's for health benefits you go super liberal, but when it comes to something you have no want to adhere to, you go ultra con huh? That's ridiculous Aquila.. (Drop mic, exit stage left..) Carry on..
1ofthechosen, you didn't quote my full statement.

Yes, it does. After experiencing the divorce courts for myself, talking with several divorcees, and seeing more and more conservative pastors voice concern over the institution of civil marriage as provided by the government, the issue became one in which I couldn't refute their point. True religious liberty would allow for any faith to have strictly religious marriages. It would also allow any faith to not participate in civil marriage if said faith determines that the statutes of civil marriage violate their religious principles. Consider this angle, it is the freedom to be married in the eyes of God without involving a government program that has unbiblical marriage statutes, and affirms gay marriage. Not to mention, some churches and Christian sects have historically taken the admonition not to be bound in any way to go before unbelieving courts very seriously (for example the Quakers).


Above, I gave both the conservative reason (in red) and the liberal reason (in blue) for rejecting civil marriage. I tend to agree with the right of individual couples to hold either, or even both, convictions.

You're problem is that you continue to think in a Left vs. Right paradigm. And when I voice that I can support something from either perspective, you cannot process it mentally without frustration leading to both accusation and name calling. The issue is multifaceted and can be looked at from both a liberal or conservative perspective.

I suggest you spiritually mature a bit, and get back with me.
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  #264  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:29 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
Lol now you want to go conservative when it fits you the best.. Those links are all about worldly people, let's allow them to define the covenant of marriage. If it's for health benefits you go super liberal, but when it comes to something you have no want to adhere to, you go ultra con huh? That's ridiculous Aquila.. (Drop mic, exit stage left..) Carry on..
That is because I'm no lapdog, selling out 100%, to a given side like so many around here. I can see the merits of both sides, and often my opinion leans left or right based on what I believe to be best for the common good of the individual.

Trust me, I get no love from the left or the right. Most liberals find me too conservative. Most conservatives find me too liberal.

I'm just seeking to follow Jesus. It doesn't surprise me that I get no love from the Sadducees or the Pharisees.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-18-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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  #265  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:03 PM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
That is because I'm no lapdog, selling out 100%, to a given side like so many around here. I can see the merits of both sides, and often my opinion leans left or right based on what I believe to be best for the common good of the individual.

Trust me, I get no love from the left or the right. Most liberals find me too conservative. Most conservatives find me too liberal.

I'm just seeking to follow Jesus. It doesn't surprise me that I get no love from the Sadducees or the Pharisees.
Now your a independent? SMH
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  #266  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:13 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
Now your a independent? SMH
Are you catching on that I don't always fit the mold on every issue? smh

As I said, liberals say I'm too conservative. Conservatives say I'm too liberal. lol

I believe that anyone who is sold out 100% to a given side has ceased to think for themselves.
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  #267  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:26 PM
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berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

You’re not a moderate. Cut the bull.
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  #268  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:36 PM
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1ofthechosen 1ofthechosen is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Are you catching on that I don't always fit the mold on every issue? smh

As I said, liberals say I'm too conservative. Conservatives say I'm too liberal. lol

I believe that anyone who is sold out 100% to a given side has ceased to think for themselves.
I'm not sold out to either side, the only things that are cemented for me is what God said. But you have been pouring your liberal propoganda and support of abortion, and gay marriage on multiple threads. Now you don't want to get married by law civally cuz gays do? So now it's time to go against the machine huh? But your all for it if they offer you free health care? You would even vote in a proponent of this stuff, that's in full support of immoral things. Not only just approving of it, but someone declaring it.

Aquila thats ludicrous.
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Last edited by 1ofthechosen; 07-18-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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  #269  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:43 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by berkeley View Post
You’re not a moderate. Cut the bull.
Who better to explain who I am than me? You?

Dear brother... stop pretending to be my judge and my God.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-18-2018 at 04:59 PM.
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  #270  
Old 07-18-2018, 04:59 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve?

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Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
I'm not sold out to either side, the only things that are cemented for me is what God said. But you have been pouring your liberal propoganda and support of abortion, and gay marriage on multiple threads. Now you don't want to get married by law civally cuz gays do? So now it's time to go against the machine huh? But your all for it if they offer you free health care? You would even vote in a proponent of this stuff, that's in full support of immoral things. Not only just approving of it, but someone declaring it.

Aquila thats ludcrous.
And... none of the above is true.

In life, there is the truth... and illusions. Illusions are often self created based on fear or hatred.
- I've chosen not to participate in civil marriage again nearly 8 years ago. And I've explained why in a very detailed manner over the years, with references ranging from conservative commentary, libertarian commentary, and even liberal commentary. It isn't a matter of "Now I don't want to get married..." So, the timing of the accusation is untrue and disconnected from reality.

- I don't support abortion. I've been adamant that I see abortion as a tragedy, and a terrible sin. My concern is more with empowering the government to control a woman's womb. Any government that can violate a woman's sovereignty and force her to give birth... can violate her sovereignty and force her to abort. In your short sightedness, you can't see that ever happening. But given circumstance, it could become a reality far sooner than most realize if the government is granted that kind of authority. Also, historically, abortion wasn't outlawed in the United States until the mid 1800's. Prior to this it was legal up until "quickening" (when movement could be felt in the womb). Ads in periodicals at the time can even bee found advertising the service by midwives. If the Founders had any desire to end abortion as found among the colonies or even the established states, they could have done so easily. They chose human sovereignty over governmental power. Looking at nations like China who mandate abortion for couples who already have a child, I feel the Founders were wise in that decision. So, the position isn't pro-abortion, it is a hesitancy to give the government power over the bodies of human beings.

- I do not support gay marriage. There is no such thing. However, given the laws of the land any "civil" institution of government and civil statute is required to treat all citizens with equal representation under the law. Therefore, no one can be denied a marriage license based on age, race, religion, or sexuality. It's about laws applying equally without reference to any discriminating factor. However, I believe this is the problem with marriage being a civil institution. Had it remained a private contract as it was prior to civil marriage licensing, we'd not see gay marriage legally codified in the United States. It would be a private contract between gay people... a contract that can even be denied validity by other private entities without fear of lawsuit. If government continues to have a civil option for marriage, it must be equally accessible to all. I'm for equal representation under the law. But I'd prefer government get out of the marriage business.

- On healthcare, I do not see any other viable solution to the healthcare crisis than a universal healthcare system. It can be a mandate to purchase health insurance (as seen in Switzerland) or it can be single payer (as seen in Canada). But any service open to all must be paid into by all else it will suffer skyrocketing costs for those who pay into the system. There is no free market solution for healthcare as it is run in the United States.
Now, you can either believe what tell you above, or make up more slanderous lies and post them, forcing me to continue to defend the truth of what I really believe. It's entirely up to you.

I'd say that I'm about 50% libertarian, 25% liberal, and 25% conservative.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-18-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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