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Originally Posted by Jito463
Silly children's game? Socialism is the slippery slope that leads to fascism/authoritarianism/totalitarianism. Remember, Hitler started as a socialist.
Socialism removes any incentive for people to work harder. When you work for a "common good" in which everyone contributes to one big pool of resources, then there's no personal incentive to do more than what's absolutely required. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of unions, because they ultimately - in an attempt to make everyone "equal" - will drag those who are capable of doing more down to the same level as everyone else. After all, if you're not going to reap the benefits of more hard work, then why bother to do it?
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When I said "silly children's game" I wasn't meaning that the effects of the two are a silly children's game. What I meant was that in reality there isn't a single country on this planet that is 100% capitalist or 100% socialist. Most modern nations are mixed economies that employ both capitalist and socialist theories. The crazy campaign against capitalism from the far left and the crazy campaign against socialism on the far right are naïve positions not grounded in reality. And both sides bring up the specters and Boogie mans of each in political discussions.
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It's the same issue with those who cry "tax the rich!", when those people are the ones generally providing the jobs to others. If you know that by earning more money you're just going to have it taken away by others, what incentive is there to even try?
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You might be amazed at how much we actually agree upon. However, there are a few things that are distortions of what I actually believe. First, the rich have so many tax shelters, tax breaks, etc. that they typically get out of paying their fair share. Guess who makes up the difference? We, the working tax payers do. So, essentially, more of the tax burden gets shifted onto the working class. Do you like paying more in taxes so that a rich guy can buy another sports car? Do you like owing more in taxes so that a rich can afford a beautiful European vacation? Do you like paying more in taxes so that the wealthy can invest more of their money overseas? Its really quite a racket they have going. Convince you that you deserve to pay more so that they can pay less, and get you actually fighting to may more! lol Now, when I say "pay more", I'm not talking about a dollar amount. I'm talking about percentage. If 50% of what they would pay in taxes is protected from taxation, they're essentially paying 50% less than you. Because you don't have any comparable tax shelters or havens available to you. For crying out sakes, the took away the ability for teachers to write off school supplies on their taxes! And here's the difference... they're wealthy. What they save in taxes is rarely passed down to the worker. How do we know this? Well, never has this much of the nation's overall wealth been in the hands of the wealthy. And guess what? Wages are still stagnate. Benefit packages are being cut. Meanwhile, they are reporting record profits. Buddy, if "trickledown economics" worked, you'd be making more by now. I mean, they've been at this since Reagan, and it's not raining yet. The jobs that are being created are "McJobs". Low paying service jobs. Wow. That's the model? Really? The only way "trickledown economics" will work is... if someone is elected who has the guts to shake the tree and make it rain. They've gotten super rich... but leveling the tax burden upon you and me. So, when one says, "tax the rich"... what they are really saying is, "make the rich pay their share". Close the tax loopholes, reduce their tax shelters, close their tax havens... they will not be rendered homeless, they'll simply not be able to buy a third yacht this year. If we're going to relieve anyone of tax burden, it's going to be those who are on the brink of being wiped out. Allow teachers to write off school supplies again. Give working families a hearty tax break. It is the working class that spends money in the local economy in towns across America, not the Donald Trumps. So, it is the middle class who will stimulate the economy and get money flowing again.
Speaking of children's games. You've played Monopoly, right? How is the game won? How does the game end? That's where we are bro. Consider this map... if a map of the United States could be compared to Monopoly, showing how much of the board our wealthier players own, it would look like this...
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Socialism vs capitalism isn't some "silly game", it's absolutely critical to our way of life.
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I've explained to people before that I have family in Canada that I visit regularly. I've spent time in Amsterdam and Brussels too. Here's the interesting thing...their way of life isn't much different. They aren't languishing in poverty. In fact, some bring home more in pocket. My aunt and uncle in Ontario are a good example. Their taxes are higher than most working middle class families. However, they also don't have the exorbitantly high monthly insurance premiums that we pay. In fact, while their taxes are in deed higher, they still walk away with what equates to nearly $300 in more "in pocket" every month compared to the average middle class family in America.
They have more disposable cash, they are healthier, they have access to more physicians, and they have more civil liberties too.
Why do Americans enjoy getting ripped off? lol
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Seriously? That's the argument? Those countries most assuredly do NOT have more freedoms than us. They might have things not considered illegal there that we do, but that is not the same thing as freedom. The US is founded on the principle of all power belonging to the people, save for what's explicitly enumerated to government.
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Actually, legality does play a part in liberty. Is it legal to gather rain water? To sell the milk from your cows? Is it legal to purchase anything you like for personal use? That's all a part of liberty. Remember, the more things that are illegal, the more you need a police force to enforce those prohibitions. And as a result, the more prohibition a society has, the more of a police state it will be. And as a result, the higher the incarceration rate. The United States has more people incarcerated per capita for non-violent crime than any other Westernized nation. Bro, that isn't a free country. Wake up. If you love liberty, and love our country, wake up to this reality. Because we can't protect our liberties, and ensure that we are more free than today if we don't take note and realize... our liberties are being whittled away. We're becoming a police state.
Now, you brought up something interesting. You mentioned that in our nation all the power belongs to the people. But there's a subtle change in the system that most have not paid attention to. Corporate personhood. Did you know that our Founders had laws on the books that seriously curtailed the power of corporations in the political process? But the SCOTUS ruled that a corporation has the same rights as you and I do. Yes, an entity that only exists on paper has the same rights as we do. And if they have bottomless pockets, guess who can secure more rights than we have? They can. They have the money to buy politicians on both sides of the isles and get legislation passed that grant them more tax shelters, more tax subsidies, more of our money... and laws that shield them from liabilities like environmental pollution, the dumping of toxic waste, etc.
The people don't have much power unless we're a united front. Right now, the big power brokers are corporations. Because nearly anyone we vote for, will be purchased by corporate interests. This is one reason why Bernie Sanders was a concern. The man has been steadfast in his opposition to corporate power and corporate personhood. Both Hillary and Trump could be made to play ball with corporate America. But Sanders, that would take a little more work. Hopefully Americans will one day wake up and realize that corporate American has the power right now. We're only told that we do. We vote to keep us satiated. But no matter who we vote for, corporations buy them.
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No other country in the world has a constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech, for example. They might have laws permitting free speech, but that's a permission, not a right. A permission can be taken away, a right is fundamental and can never be separated from us (no matter what the laws say).
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Some liberties are protected here more than elsewhere. But that's only because it doesn't matter what you say. The one with the gold makes the rules. So, they don't mind you being able to speak. And they have enough money to create a dozen crazy think tanks with opinion pieces to make you look crazy. They use the very same liberties we enjoy... against us. For example, the candidates the corporate powers that be decide are viable because they feel they can bribe them will be the ones corporations pay to have air time. Anyone challenging their grip on the government will struggle to get their message out. And if they do, the corporations have a massive network of right-wing pundits ready to mischaracterized and slander them with so much mud, the American people don't have a clue as to what the merits of the person's position are.
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That's why I'm so adamantly opposed to any of the so-called "common sense" gun laws, because they're infringing on a fundamental right of the people.
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I've tossed the idea of gun laws around in my head. I've felt like I could support some gun laws. However, though I'm probably to the left of you in my reasoning on many things, I don't believe gun laws are the answer either. When it comes to issues of hate and violence, the evils that proceed from the hearts of men, Jesus is clearly the only answer.