Tithing…Is it a command?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Christopher Hall, How long halt ye between two opinions? JFFT. Bro-Larry

Am I of two opinions...or do you just not understand my opinion?

Is tithing a "command"? I do not believe it is.

Is it a salvational issue? I do not believe it is.

Is there a biblical principle behind tithing? Yes I believe there is.

If one is part of a church should they do their best to tithe if that is the financial system embraced by the church? By all means.

Paul put it this way....

"5Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
14And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
15Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift." - II Corinthians 9:5-15

If one purposes in their heart to give a tenth that is honorable. However, for some ten percent would be nothing, they could give far far more. I don't believe there's a set limit on NT giving. For some a tenth would be very difficult to give and still survive. For example I know older folks who are barely making it as it is and to demand a tenth from them would be unjust. There are families who are struggling to maintain their homes right now, demanding a tenth from them would be unjust. Now, if they choose to give a tenth as they have purposed in their hearts there's no issue. The faith should never be used as a tool for extortion.

"14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation." - Matthew 23:14

"23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." - Matthew 23:23

"10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;" - Mark 7:10-12

" 41And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." - Mark 12:41-44

If a person is devoured with bills and is left with very little to live on and only gives out of what little they have left they have given, sacrificed, far more than those who can comfortably give 10%.

Jesus isn't concerned so much with the percentage given...but rather the quality of the sacrifice.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

"5Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
14And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
15Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift." - II Corinthians 9:5-15

Not to revive a dead horse, but the error of your scripture is that you do not sow the tithe. The tenth of our increase is already the Lord's therefore we return/bring it to Him. This is where most have a problem in interpreting this subject.

Classes of giving:

• The tithe (it's easy it's a tenth or it's not a tithe and it also goes to your local church - storehouse)
  
• Offering (includes giving to churches, missionaries, other works of the ministry)
  
• Giving to the poor (helping those in need, widows, orphans and so on)
  
• Honor (giving to those who are to be respected in your life -- a parent, a pastor, someone who spiritually speaks into your life, etc]
  

Each one is determined differently, each one has different promises associated with it, and each one is scriptural.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Classes of giving:

[*]The tithe (it's easy it's a tenth or it's not a tithe and it also goes to your local church - storehouse)

This was received and officiated by the Priesthood. Can you offer a NT example of this taking place in the NT church in the book of Acts or in the Epistles?

Also please note...the storehouse wasn't for the Levitical tithe. It was for the poor tithe. There were three different tithes in ancient Israel.

[*]Offering (includes giving to churches, missionaries, other works of the ministry)

Amen.

[*]Giving to the poor (helping those in need, widows, orphans and so on)

Amen.

[*]Honor (giving to those who are to be respected in your life -- a parent, a pastor, someone who spiritually speaks into your life, etc]

Amen.

[Bro-Larry]

I know this thread has been hyjacked, but I didn't do it. LOL

Chris: You advocate house church, but you continue going to spectator church. That's the two opinions to which I was referring. I know what you are going to do, but I was just trying to give you a little push. Bless you Bro.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

I know this thread has been hyjacked, but I didn't do it. LOL

Chris: You advocate house church, but you continue going to spectator church. That's the two opinions to which I was referring. I know what you are going to do, but I was just trying to give you a little push. Bless you Bro.

Bro. Larry. I see the value in house church and think those of us in the traditional model could learn a lot from them. I have heard of an Apostolic church in Wisconsin that has midweek services in homes and the Sunday services at church.

Here in Dayton there's a non-denominational church with a huge facility off of Far Hills called Apex. But this is a headquarters for a network of various home based community churches.

[Sister Alvear]

chris, are you in dayton Ohio?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

chris, are you in dayton Ohio?

Yeppers. You know someone near here?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here is another site of interest.
http://tithingdebate.com

[Poimen]

I don't believe tithing, as an instituion, is taught by the NT. Tithing as a voluntary act of giving, however, is not foirbidden by it. But there is no evidence of a NT tithing system in the apostolic Christian church (that is meant in reference to the church during the lifetime of the Apostles, not modern day oneness pentecostals).

I want to make clear that I am not saying one cannot tithe, nor am I encouraging anyone to stop tithing. And for those who may be wondering, yes I tithe. In fact I give well above the tithe to my local church, and also to my wife's local church. But I do so as an act of giving, of my own accord, in devotion and thankfulness for what I have and the ability to be able to do so. I have not always been so fortunate in material terms.

I am however trying to accept the clear teaching of Scripture, rightly divided, on the subject of tithing and giving. I am trying to be willing to lay aside preconceived notions or bias and let the Scripture speak for itself. As I have come to understand it... Via the NT tithing can be done under the umbrella of giving -- but it is not distinct from it, only another form of it. That is my position and belief. Therefore, properly speaking, I do not believe the NT teaches, compels, or otherwise supports the idea of a Christian tithing system. It is a misinterpretation and misapplication of Scripture to conclude otherwise (IMO).

I'll start with the NT references to tithing, in order to clear the air about them. It is true that tithing is mentioned in the NT, by Christ and the writer to the Hebrews.

While it is true that Jesus does not teach against tithing, but rather, indirectly supports it. The question we must answer is if the tithing Christ addresses is indeed a
(1) Christian tithe to the Church OR (2) the levitical tithe under the Mosaic law.

I submit it is the later. The context of the passage bares this out.

Originally Posted by Matthew 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1. To whom is Jesus speaking?
The Pharisees.

2. To what covenant does Jesus refer as to their partial obedience, the Old Mosaic covenant or the New "Christian" covenant?
The law (of Moses), the old covenant.

3. Of what substances did they tithe?
Even the smallest of herbs -- pointing to an agrarian society and again to the old covenant economy.

4. To whom were tithes payed under the Old Covenant?
Primarily to the levitical priesthood for the support of the tribe of Levi, who in an agrarian culture hand no land inheritance of their own.

This, though a bit premature, leads to at least a couple of additional questions...

5. When the temple was destroyed, and the Levites and priesthood no longer served, what happened to the tithe?
It ceased. Israel was scattered. There was no longer a temple, priesthood, tithing, nor sacrificial system in place. Tithing literally ceased with the decaying away of the institutions of the Old Covenant itself.

6. Was tithing a part of the moral and transcendent law of God? Or was part of the ceremonial, legalistic, and/or civil law of God to Israel that was nailed to the cross with Christ and taken out of the way -- abolished by His death?
I think that one is a no brainer.

So then, obviously, Christ was not setting any precedent or establishing any teaching concerning a NT Christian tithe to the church. No, He was addressing the failure of those who prided themselves in the most meticulous details of law keeping for majoring in minors. He was addressing the Levitical Mosaic tithe, an OT practice. Nothing more.

More later. :wink:

[theoldpaths]

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.