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  #21  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:02 AM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

Thanks for posting this. I just started reading it. You make a good point about the signs of the end.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:10 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

Daniel 7 shows the Kingdoms of the World,
Babylonian
Medo Persian
Greek
Roman
being destroyed and the Kingdom being given to the saints of God
Quote:
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Matthew 24 shows the destruction of the Herod's temple which represented the corrupt religious/political system of that day.

was the destruction of the temple a sign that the saints were to fulful Daniel 7:27:

Last edited by Amanah; 07-22-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2018, 12:45 PM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

Good explanation of the sign of the son of man in heaven. Traditional explanations have it as the sign being in the heavens, the sky or space at the second advent.

Lots of material there Esaias, thanks!
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:07 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Daniel 7 shows the Kingdoms of the World,
Babylonian
Medo Persian
Greek
Roman
being destroyed and the Kingdom being given to the saints of God



Matthew 24 shows the destruction of the Herod's temple which represented the corrupt religious/political system of that day.

was the destruction of the temple a sign that the saints were to fulful Daniel 7:27:
It was certainly part of the sign that Jesus was in fact the Son of Man spoken of in Daniel 7, that HE was the one who had acceded to the right hand of power, that He had been given an everlasting kingdom and dominion, and that therefore the saints were in the process of receiving the kingdom. The apostles in Acts 1 asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time. Their question clearly includes a reference to Daniel 7. His answer was to not worry about the time frame, but wait in Jerusalem until they received the power of the Holy Ghost. Thus, receiving the power of the Holy Ghost is part of the kingdom being restored to Israel. That is, it is part of the fulfillment of Daniel 7, with the saints possessing the kingdom because they are in Christ and Christ has been given the kingdom.

With the temple being destroyed, that clearly demonstrated that the old order was done away with, and the new covenant had been fully put in place. Which means the Judean religious leadership no longer held the kingdom, it had been taken from them, and was being given to another nation that would bear the fruits of it. This of course ties into the numerous prophecies concerning the remnant and elect of scattered Israel which were to be reunited with a remnant of Judah to form the new covenant Israel. This new covenant Israel was to take the Gospel and Word of the Lord to all nations, that all nations might serve Him (as written in Daniel 7).

The SIGN of "the Son of Man in the Heavens" would be that which signifies who the Son of Man in the Heavens actually is, which we know to be Jesus. What is the Sign? It is essentially His death, burial, and resurrection (no other sign was to be given except that of Jonah). His resurrection was proven not only by the appearances to His chosen witnesses, but also by the outpouring of the Spirit upon His followers who were baptised in His Name. It was also proven by the spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles. It was also proven by the destruction of the Temple and the priesthood. All these things indicate the "Sign" of "the Son of Man in the Heavens", that is, they testify as to WHO fulfills Daniel 7, and thus who the Messiah is.

And thus, all those in Christ, would begin experiencing the fulfillment of Daniel 7 in their own lives, and in their own time. Which is still available today. "We have been seated together with Him in heavenly places" the apostle said.

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  #25  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:11 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

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Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Good explanation of the sign of the son of man in heaven. Traditional explanations have it as the sign being in the heavens, the sky or space at the second advent.

Lots of material there Esaias, thanks!
Yes, exactly. But traditional explanations generally do not take into account the whole issue of Daniel 7 and the "Son of Man" Christology presented in the Gospels. Not that nobody else has noticed the connection before, because I believe I quoted Gill's commentary which it seems he had a grasp of the truth on this matter, though it does not seem to be fully developed in his understanding. But both preterist and futurist interpretative schemes seem to miss this. And honestly, so do a lot of historicists. I believe this understanding could serve as a key to developing a genuinely APOSTOLIC eschatology, which wouldn't quite fit any "isms" floating around the religious world...
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2018, 03:06 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

do you think Daniel 7:24-25 speaks of the rise of nations under the rule of the Catholic Church (religion/political system)?

Last edited by Amanah; 07-22-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:34 PM
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
do you think Daniel 7:24-25 speaks of the rise of nations under the rule of the Catholic Church (religion/political system)?
I believe that v 24 speaks of the rise of nations out of the Roman Empire, as well as the rise of the Vatican, and v 25 speaks of the Vatican's war against God and the saints.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2018, 02:50 AM
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

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Just a quick note, in my research today, correlating with previous research I had done (some of which is mentioned in several other threads that lie buried in the dust around here), I have discovered some fascinating connections tying the Enochian Judaism sectaries with both Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, Mithraism, and good old fashioned old testament Baal worship along with the rise of the Catholic Church and syncretic gnosticism in the early church. It's all coming together into a "big picture" moment...
Update on the research:

Enoch in mystical Judaism was identified with Metatron, the "lesser YHVH". Early on this resulted in the infamous " Two Powers" heresy of early post-Second Temple Judaism. It is at the core of kaballah, which is Jewish Gnosticism.

But, Metatron has been linked to Mithra by some scholars. And, Mithraism was prevalent and even dominant in Asia Minor, especially the area where Colossae and Galatia are located. There was in Asia Minor a mingling of Persian Mithraism and Jewish syncretic mysticism/Gnostic mystery religion, giving rise to a very prominent Mystery Cult that after 70AD would be spread by Roman soldiers throughout much of the western Empire. In Asia Minor the family of Herod intermarried with various royal families of Anatolian kingdoms. These Anatolians were big on their Persian ancestry, and favoured Persian religion, aka Zoroastrianism in its "Mithraism" form. The Herodians were also big supporters of the Mithra Mystery cult, and apparently helped facilitate the combining of Jewish speculative occultism and Gnostic mythologies with that of Mithra and Zoroastrianism. There is a connection between Dionysus and Mithra here, and between Mithra-Metatron-"Enoch" as well.

Enoch supposedly was the first Astronomer Priest, but so was Zoroaster. So Enochian Judaism appears to be a Persian Zoriastrian-Mithraic syncretism, likely originating in Babylon during the PERSIAN rule under Darius, Cyrus, Xerxes, etc. The Persian religion of the Magi (Zoroastrianism) appears to have been given a Jewish flavor by some of the returning Exiles...

Also, found out that Mithra = Indra of the Vedic religion, and that Indra = Baal of the western Semitic religions. And, Baal of course was the Sun god of not only the Canaanites, but of the Phoenicians as well, and was even worshipped in Egypt as Amon.

And of course, Baal goes back to Nimrod, who apparently is celebrated in ancient Mesopotamian texts as the Mighty Hunter Who Fought Against the God-Who-Flooded-The-Earth.

Baal was the Storm God who supposedly rode on the storm-clouds of heaven, just like Indra. So the Son of Man in Dan 7 coming with the clouds of heaven appears to be a direct attack on Babylonian storm god BEL (Baal). Interestingly, this connects with Genesis 6 and all that, as the sons of El intermarried with daughters of Ish (man). The Son of Man is the Son of Adam, which would be SETH, the appointed replacement for Abel. The sons of Adam (Sethites) were intermarrying with others (Cainites?) except for the named line in Genesis culminating in Noah. Noah would be the Son of Adam/Man ie heir to the inheritance of Adam. Nimrod, son of Cush son of Ham, was apparently in opposition to the God of Shem. Shem being the heir of Noah and thus Son of Adam, his line (Shem's line) down to Abraham would be in opposition to the Nimrod/Cush dynasty.

In other words, a family squabble between the heir or Son of Adam and the sons or heirs of Nimrod. Nimrod became worshipped as Baal over time, so we see the basis for the ancient conflict between Baal and Jehovah as being between the Son/Heir of Adam and the would be heirs of Nimrod. Jesus is Son of Adam, heir to the inheritance of Adam through Noah and Shem, Abraham, etc.

The Baalism of Enochian Judaism was essentially asserting through occultic symbolism that Baal/Nimrod was the heavenly Son of Man and rightful heir of the world. The Gospel asserts that Jesus is that Son of Man. The destruction of the Temple (which was run by Herod's appointees, a spurious non-Zadokite priesthood) would be a clear signal that Jesus was the victor over Baal/Nimrod/Metatron/Mithra and the Herodian/Edomite dynasty of Baal worshipping false Jews. See Rev 2:9 and 3:9.
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Last edited by Esaias; 07-23-2018 at 02:54 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:09 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

Also, what I am seeing more and more is that in the Ancient World there was really only two religions: the true faith of Jehovah, on the one hand, and the various pagan cults on the other. But these various pagan cults, with all their multiplicities of gods, are all really just one religion. In each culture, in each era, the same religion goes by different names, with slight variation in the rites and beliefs and names of deities. But really it's all the same religion, and more importantly, it was recognized as such by the people of those times. "Amon is worshipped in Palestine as Baal." "Zeus is worshipped in Persia as Mitra." and similar statements abound in the ancient writings. Man doesn't have a variety of religions, it's all really one under different names. And the pagan cults are but veiled, shadowy reflections of the ancient primitive original religion of Adam. They all go back to a Single Origin. The Abrahamic Faith contends that it is the true expression of that Original Religion, but the Baal cults claim THEY are the true carriers of the Original.

This conflict lies behind the entire history of mankind. History is the record of the conflict being discussed here, as a matter of fact.

And, that ancient Baal cult never went away. It just did what it ALWAYS did from country to country and era to era: it continued under new names. It is still around, TODAY. And just like through ALL recorded history, then as now, it is the religion of kings and rulers, wealthy and powerful family dynasties, who coincidentally trace their lineage right back to not only Caesar, but to Herod, Mithridates, Xerxes, Darius, and ultimately back to NIMROD.
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:26 AM
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Re: The Son of Man and His Coming in Power

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This conflict lies behind the entire history of mankind. History is the record of the conflict being discussed here, as a matter of fact.

And, that ancient Baal cult never went away. It just did what it ALWAYS did from country to country and era to era: it continued under new names. It is still around, TODAY. And just like through ALL recorded history, then as now, it is the religion of kings and rulers, wealthy and powerful family dynasties, who coincidentally trace their lineage right back to not only Caesar, but to Herod, Mithridates, Xerxes, Darius, and ultimately back to NIMROD.
Which throws much-needed light on current events. A relatively small number of powerful families, connected by marriages and other alliances, have been promoting all sorts of insanity through their control of media, educational institutions, governments, financial institutions, etc. But that insanity is nothing but good old fashioned Baal worship!

Global warming and eco-worship? It's Baalism, nature worship. Gross immorality? Baal worship. Usury and consolidation of wealth via theft? BAALISM.

The Phonoecians were known to the Hindi people in ancient times as the Panis, which is a cognate term for MONEY among various Hindi dialects. They were known as THIEVES, financial extortioners, devourers and consolidators of wealth. They worshipped Baal. The Phoenicians are historically credited with the invention of finance and currency... And were prominent Baal worshippers...

An interesting tidbit is that the word Phonoecian is possibly derived from Pa-Hanok, meaning House or Family of Enoch...
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Last edited by Esaias; 07-23-2018 at 03:28 AM.
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