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  #31  
Old 09-08-2019, 05:48 AM
Michael The Disciple's Avatar
Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Looks like Peter spelled it out quite clearly.
Yes he spelled out the womens role. I agree with what he wrote. Now I realize that for most Churches what I will say here would be irrelevant. When I was in the Jesus movement in the 70's we were basically doing 2 things. Loving Jesus and witnessing for him.

In that context the women were equally involved with the men. We went out on the streets and passed out Jesus tracts. If the people were willing we would tell them about Jesus and give our testimony. In our particular group the women could accompany men, but they did not go on the streets alone.

We did not believe in women pastors or teachers in the meetings but encouraged them to be part of the street ministry. They were doing their part in the great commission.

I personally would be glad to see women on the street witnessing again in those circumstances. In our times it it extremely rare to see ANYONE witnessing on the streets even men.

Nowadays I do see women doing outreach through the internet. To be exact Facebook and Youtube. I am good with this unless they use it to promote themselves to a five fold ministry position.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
YES:
Luke:8: 2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils 3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
(we can see Apostles were men ,but there was many women served the Lord in a feminine way)
10:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary [the mother] of James, and other [women that were] with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
(women testify! That was not Teaching neither Preaching, that was Testimony!)
Acts 1: 14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
(prayers! Yes women can pray out loud too! but with a veil)
[I]8: 3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison. [/I] (women can be imprisoned like men and that means they will have the same tribulations and the same payment! )
1 Tim.2: 11 Let the woman learn
(yes women are to listen and learn the Word of God exactly like all men )
1 Cor.9 ; 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
(a wife = a "woman sister", that was women who served them probably)
. 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
(yes evey woman can pray and prophesy)
1 Τιmothy 5: 9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,4 10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
(as oposite to an elder who has to be worker of the Word, a woman has to be:
1)one time married
2)having good works (that how she serve the Lord ona feminine way)
3)She has to keep a house! to grow up and teach her children! Thats not so easy!
4)she can open her home to ministers, poor brother/sister, or for prayers etc.
5)washing feet that was common for ancient years men`s feet were dirty , this can apply on a woman today in other ways.
6)wow this is difficult too relieved the afflicted!this can be visit to hospital, helping elder moms, give money, giving food etc.
7)as you can see, every good work can be on a woman resume work except Preach the Word or Teach men
did says anywere she has to be "a good preacher"? No!

Τιtus 3: 3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,4 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed
1) teachers of good things That they may teach the young women(not men!)
2)young woman:teach their children ,love their husbands,home keepers,
Home Keepers is not an easy thing..
Please sisters, leave the pulpit alone and be a home keeper with
" "a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

NO NO NO:
1 Tim.2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(if Paul suffer not,then me neither)
1 Cor.14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
(women can not teach or preach over men. Jezebel was used her prophesy gift as an opportunity to preach/teach over men)
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
(Does the Church teach to Christ? Or Christ teach the Church? The same is between men-women. )
I do agree with what Peter has written that women should not teach or lead men, but there are many facets within the church where leadership of women and children is necessary.

I do not agree with the highlighted red statement Peter makes. The veiling was cultural.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2019, 11:49 PM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Yes he spelled out the womens role. I agree with what he wrote. Now I realize that for most Churches what I will say here would be irrelevant. When I was in the Jesus movement in the 70's we were basically doing 2 things. Loving Jesus and witnessing for him.

In that context the women were equally involved with the men. We went out on the streets and passed out Jesus tracts. If the people were willing we would tell them about Jesus and give our testimony. In our particular group the women could accompany men, but they did not go on the streets alone.

We did not believe in women pastors or teachers in the meetings but encouraged them to be part of the street ministry. They were doing their part in the great commission.

I personally would be glad to see women on the street witnessing again in those circumstances. In our times it it extremely rare to see ANYONE witnessing on the streets even men.

Nowadays I do see women doing outreach through the internet. To be exact Facebook and Youtube. I am good with this unless they use it to promote themselves to a five fold ministry position.
It's not really safe for women to be out alone on the streets witnessing now. But in a group, yes of course. Sharing the gospel should be at the top of our to-do list every single day. Wherever we go, and whatever we are doing, we can be about our Father's business.
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  #34  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:57 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
I do agree with what Peter has written that women should not teach or lead men, but there are many facets within the church where leadership of women and children is necessary.

I do not agree with the highlighted red statement Peter makes. The veiling was cultural.
Βrother i did said (the Bible said) women are to teach children and other women too.
Like men have Elders women are called Moms (mothrs) , it is a blessing to have such wise women take care of children and teach younger women.

now for the veil lovely brother,, was not my statement ,is Bible statement.
1)ita was cultural then see the reason behind the veil? :
11. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.¨
Because of the Angles is not a cultural , do you think the Angels care about Corinthians costumes?

2)Who told women must be veiled? was a man made tradition of Greeks? or Paul told thm?

11 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.1 the word ordeinances is Tradition , yes we have tradition of men and tradition of God,

3)it was just for Corinth Church ?
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

read it alone without any men`s intepretaions and you will see.
keep in mind when Paul wrote it was a costume of Jews having their head covered when praying both mewn and woman. Jews continue to have coverings in their head till this day women always wear a veil or anything like that and rabbis wear a small hat. that proves why Paul said that men dont have to continue this ,but women must.

Peace be with you.
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  #35  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:29 AM
Pressing-On's Avatar
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
What does women LABORING in the gospel look like?
They wrestled together, they jointly sought the same things together. Why should we try to downplay the role that women have in the church?

We labour by the side of every man, not usurping any authority. We can be used in the same way without taking away from the role of a man.

Quote:
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4866: συναθλέω

συναθλέω, συνάθλω; 1 aorist συνήθλησα; to strive at the same time with another: with a dative commodi (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 31, 4), for something, Philippians 1:21; τίνι ἐν τίνι, together with one in something, Philippians 4:3. (universally, to help, assist, Diodorus 3, 4.)
Quote:
have labored
συνήθλησάν (synēthlēsan)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4866: From sun and athleo; to wrestle in company with, i.e. to seek jointly.
Quote:
συναθλέω
sunathleō
soon-ath-leh'-o
From G4862 and G118; to wrestle in company with, that is, (figuratively) to seek jointly: - labour with, strive together for.

G4862 - sun
soon
A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than G3326 or G3844), that is, by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.: - beside, with. In compounds it has similar applications, including completeness.


G118 - ἀθλέω
athleō
ath-leh'-o
From ἄθλος athlos (a contest in the public lists); to contend in the competitive games: - strive.
Assuredly, this is no picnic and we are not counseling on how to change diapers and set a table!



Quote:
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
Those women . . .—It should be, help them (Euodia and Syntyche), inasmuch as they laboured with me. The word “laboured” signifies “joined with me in my struggle,” and probably refers to something more than ordinary labour, in the critical times of suffering at Philippi.
Quote:
Benson Commentary
Help those women who laboured together with me — Greek, συνηθλησαν μοι, literally, who wrestled, or contended together, with me.
Here Barnes, as other Commentaries try to downplay the intensity of word "labored"

Quote:
Barnes
The kind of "help" which was to be imparted was probably by counsel, and friendly cooperation in the duties which they were called to perform.
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Last edited by Pressing-On; 09-09-2019 at 09:36 AM.
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:43 AM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
Βrother i did said (the Bible said) women are to teach children and other women too.
Like men have Elders women are called Moms (mothrs) , it is a blessing to have such wise women take care of children and teach younger women.

now for the veil lovely brother,, was not my statement ,is Bible statement.
1)ita was cultural then see the reason behind the veil? :
11. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.¨
Because of the Angles is not a cultural , do you think the Angels care about Corinthians costumes?

2)Who told women must be veiled? was a man made tradition of Greeks? or Paul told thm?

11 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.1 the word ordeinances is Tradition , yes we have tradition of men and tradition of God,

3)it was just for Corinth Church ?
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

read it alone without any men`s intepretaions and you will see.
keep in mind when Paul wrote it was a costume of Jews having their head covered when praying both mewn and woman. Jews continue to have coverings in their head till this day women always wear a veil or anything like that and rabbis wear a small hat. that proves why Paul said that men dont have to continue this ,but women must.

Peace be with you.
Peter 83, just so you know. Kept By The Word is a sister.
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  #37  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:45 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
They wrestled together, they jointly sought the same things together. Why should we try to downplay the role that women have in the church?

We labour by the side of every man, not usurping any authority. We can be used in the same way without taking away from the role of a man.
Nonsense. If the woman is not permitted to teach the man, is to be silent in the assembly, is to be under subjection, etc, then the woman most certainly is NOT being used "in the same way" as the man.

Working with someone for the same goal in no way means both have the same responsibilities, prerogatives, etc.

Modern society has abandoned proper male-female distinctions in the name of "equality" and the results are in: failure on every front. Egalitarianism, feminism, "leveling the playing field", etc result in emasculated men, trannyism, lesbian man-hating cat ladies, destruction of the family, economic collapse, political insanity, liberalism, unnecessary harmful foreign entanglements, and leadership based on muh feelz instead of reason. In short, the destruction of everything good.
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:50 AM
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

As for headcovering being cultural? More nonsense. Paul gave no reason based on culture. There WAS no single standard "culture" about head covering at the time among the Greeks/Romans. All of his reasons are rooted in Scripture, nature, and the God ordained distinctions between man and woman. If those reasons exist, headcovering is mandated. Those reasons still exist. Therefore, a woman praying or prophesying uncovered today dishonours her head and ought to be shorn or shaven, it is shameful, still today.
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  #39  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:05 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
They wrestled together, they jointly sought the same things together. Why should we try to downplay the role that women have in the church?

We labour by the side of every man, not usurping any authority. We can be used in the same way without taking away from the role of a man.






Assuredly, this is no picnic and we are not counseling on how to change diapers and set a table!







Here Barnes, as other Commentaries try to downplay the intensity of word "labored"
Ι will quote my post if you want to read it (Bible only).
I dont know who is downplay the role of a woman today . (God downplay a woman? by wants you with a quiet precious spirit? / or Satan, that want you make noises in the pulpit like a man? and men whisper with the modern gay voice "praise the Lord sister"???? sister the problem is why some think "downplay" your role by not allowing you be what you really are. As a waman you have a real job (not a role to play) and as woman who wants to labour you already have enough to care, you dont want to put a "be better than Mike" game.
I mean downplay is when someone still from you the things that Lord given you and fools you that you have to be "like men" or something antagonistic.
Sister, we (men and women) wrestling and fighting together for our salvation and the love of the Truth.
But this does not mean you have to do exactly what a man makes. God put a different between man and woman and this is not "downplay" , that is find your real self, your real destiny.
Our Modern Society hides your uniqueness and the diversity that God gave us/
Sister is a benefit be a real holy woman of God!!!
(if you want read the verses i quote on the previous and read them for yourself. Let "commentators" and theologians go to hell alone, you can only see how God want you as a holy woman in Scriptures)
Peace to you.

Last edited by peter83; 09-09-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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  #40  
Old 09-09-2019, 01:44 PM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: Women Keeping Silence: What I Teach

Well...I do not have time to write posts here because it is never ending...I am just glad I obeyed the call and today there are scores of churches scattered across Brazil...The past 51 years of my life has been spent gleaning His fields.
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