Oneness vs Monotheism

[Apostolic1ness]

...the Word was God ...and the Word was made flesh...

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

...the Word was God ...and the Word was made flesh...

nd he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Who was the Word or the reason of creation? Of course in His plan was that God will manifest in flesh but the entire agenda is: The felsh=Son
These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;1 "beggining means "principle" So it means He was not a creature, but the principle behind the creation,thats the Word.(thought-reason)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: again thats Son/flesh not God, God is who born everyone.
You know why satan dodn want to kinow the Son of God?
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.(the flesh is that image,flesh is not God himself,is the image of the INVISEIBLE.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

SO that was made (by God is made,God is not made by anyone).The Son, Glory to God/The flesh thoiugh which God did everything. and so, when the time came...this Spirit of Jesus did a Son, a body and wheeled in that flesh!!!!

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by peter83

nd he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Who was the Word or the reason of creation? Of course in His plan was that God will manifest in flesh but the entire agenda is: The felsh=Son
These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;1 "beggining means "principle" So it means He was not a creature, but the principle behind the creation,thats the Word.(thought-reason)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: again thats Son/flesh not God, God is who born everyone.
You know why satan dodn want to kinow the Son of God?
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.(the flesh is that image,flesh is not God himself,is the image of the INVISEIBLE.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

SO that was made (by God is made,God is not made by anyone).The Son, Glory to God/The flesh thoiugh which God did everything. and so, when the time came...this Spirit of Jesus did a Son, a body and wheeled in that flesh!!!!

When the scripture says "Word was God...The Word was made flesh" why do you say "reason of creation"? Your wording is trying to radically separate Jesus and God. The clear teaching is that God was made flesh. I believe you misunderstand who Jesus is. You use the right scriptures to support the same view as oneness yet you fail to realize when you see Jesus you see God. You would deny that one would see God because your teachings separate Jesus into two radically separate individuals God and Man. This is what you teach if you realize it or not. What you fail to understand is that Jesus was not just a man that God filled with his spirit. Jesus was God incarnate meaning God in His human existence as a real human. Being a real human there were limitations to that flesh i.e. hunger, thirst, sadness, emotions, the flesh could die. This was God in real human existence, Jesus prayed just as any man should. He was a man but he was no atheist. Yes Jesus was the Son of God there is no fear in oneness position for saying he is the Son. You must understand Jesus was not a shell or a glove that God stepped into. He was God in flesh.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

When the scripture says "Word was God...The Word was made flesh" why do you say "reason of creation"? Your wording is trying to radically separate Jesus and God. The clear teaching is that God was made flesh. I believe you misunderstand who Jesus is. You use the right scriptures to support the same view as oneness yet you fail to realize when you see Jesus you see God. You would deny that one would see God because your teachings separate Jesus into two radically separate individuals God and Man. This is what you teach if you realize it or not. What you fail to understand is that Jesus was not just a man that God filled with his spirit. Jesus was God incarnate meaning God in His human existence as a real human. Being a real human there were limitations to that flesh i.e. hunger, thirst, sadness, emotions, the flesh could die. This was God in real human existence, Jesus prayed just as any man should. He was a man but he was no atheist. Yes Jesus was the Son of God there is no fear in oneness position for saying he is the Son. You must understand Jesus was not a shell or a glove that God stepped into. He was God in flesh.

Ι see Jesus as God, but only in Biblical view.(my wording is Biblew wording ,which is bothers "oneness".
You said that i "seperate Jesus adn God" . i did that? OIr the Scriptures have a distinction many times?
No my brother!
-God came IN flesh
-6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
-God was IN Christ.
-For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Amen? Am i right to say that God came IN flesh? The flesh was not God.

To whom God gave His name? To whom gave his glory? Not in that flesh? Who was praying to the Father? Not the man Jesus?
(I am more oneness than you because i believe "God in Christ") but were you saw me make distinctions? You probably speak about the distinction that there are in the Bible.

If the flesh wan God , then what about those scriptures? Doers Scriptute separate God and Christ?
3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us THTOUGH HIM (IN HIM)before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father IN THE NAME OF our Lord Jesus Christ;

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all IN THE NAME of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father BY HIM.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

i can go on and on,. and you will finally tell me "your wording radically try to separate Christ from God" Me? SERIOUS?
serious now, i believe in one God, his name is Jesus and is my Father.
You say the same too ,roght? So when iu say about the Son of God, you say i do distinctions? The bible tyhen what it make?
Father=Deity. God send, resurrected, created,gave, glorify,anoints etc.
Son=humanity, was born,died,preyed,received ,being glorified,veing resurrected,being anointed,

"everyone who sees ME he sees the Fther" who is that "me", is it God? that is unseen and invisible or the Son, that flesh?
Jesus answered to him " Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Ι

amen?

[peter83]

My lovely brothers .
Gid had a plan, a thought ,and the reason for God did the world was Jesus.
He wanted to manifeast in flesh.
So how God came in flesh?
God gave birth to a human. Tha the Word made flesh. God spoke for him:
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 2
The child was named Son of God ,just because got birth from the Spirit.
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
That flesh is not God himself! Is Gods son.
20 Who verily was "foreordained" before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (the text has the word predicted Jesus ,the Son,the man was predicted by the Father.
He knew his obedience and his perfect submission to the law and he saw the resurrection and His glory too.
He did all thing THROUGH him. Thas the Word, All prophetic Word in the Old Testament speak about the Son.

Then God came inside him ,at Baptism. He came without measure. I like our baptism but Jesus had the Spirit without measure!
And also gave that wonderful and real testimony:
16 And Jesus, when he was baptised, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Brothers and sister, why you think God did not mean just what He told ? He spoke those words again and again.
That was the revelation of Peter! The Church is upon that statement:
Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.1 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Even the Gospel of John ,that speaks specifically about who Jesus was, never said "i am the Father" never claimed to be God (just equal to God).Why?
Because until he was glorified he could not say i am God, why? Because he received Hid deity and glory from the Father:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


God was In Christ, God was the Spirit who gave birth to Christ and then came inside him. Tha was God (invisible) manifest in flseh (visible body of the Son).
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father*, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;** and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
*God is Spirit and invisible.
**God manifest in flesh, he who has see me (the visible man) has see the Father.how?
***That is how:God was inside the man Jesus, and Jesus totally submissive to His Father ,did not spoke or did anything from himself ,bnut the Father that was inside him ,did and spoke all that!
God was inside that body and even invisible ,people sow God through his actions,works and speech.

Now, the man Jesus, was predestined and glorified in Father before the foundation of the world! God was in Jesus ,before even was born.
God saw his obedience and his work at the cross but also the glory!!!!
So after God manifest to us through that body, and died for our sins (we dont have forgivenesses if we dont believe that the man Jesus died for us)
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God did his Son ,Lord.

He gave his name to him.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name [is] in him.
that was the Word. nut was just "word in the mind of God"
after the word was made (by God) flesh:
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,* and given him **a name which is above every name:
Brothers & sisters, i can choose many verses (i think you should know them better that me) but this one is enough ,to remind you that God:
*resurrected that body,through was manifest, and not only manifest but also did all thing through Him All the world.
**God gave his name,and glory, and the "promise of the Holy Spirit" to him.Who gave to whom? Clearly speaks about God and his Son, Spirit and flesh.amen?

God came in flesh, God does not recived anything by anyone. God is not an apostle.but the Son was an apostle , the Son was made, and sended. The son was glorified and received the glory and name of God.
Look how serious is to believe to God through His Son.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one

*First of all Jesus said as WE are onw, and also "we will come in him" (who beliefe) it speaks for the Spirit we have. God was in Christ in earth, was actualy in him before the world (logos) and still in him, in that glorified body.
So when we recieve the Spirit, that is again the same God in Christ!! "thou in me" and "i in them" Glory to God.
**Second is that he gave as that glory which he had and that is:
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
What a wonderful revelation! And we will be as him :And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
But what glory Jesus received now? (the glory always had as Logos in the mind of God):
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Glory to God:
6 For unto us a child is born*, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
*Child is born is not God, God does not born by anyone neither needs someone else to given to him anything.
**His name (of the child) SHALL BE (later, when God will give to him) God was always everlasting Father ,but the Son received that by his Father.
Welcome to real Monotheisms. God in Christ .

[Apostolic1ness]

You are teaching that Jesus did not have the Spirit of God until he was Baptized?
You are teaching that the Word is some abstract thought and not "the word was God"?
You teach there was a birth and after God came inside Jesus?

[Esaias]

Peter, the Logos was God, not some "plan of God". If the Logos was God, and the Logos was made flesh (human), then God was made flesh (human).

There is only one God, the Father, but the apostles called Jesus our great God and Saviour.

You are ignoring the verses which clearly teach that Jesus IS God. You seem to think that Jesus is ONLY a man in whom God dwells. You do not accept the COMPLETE and TOTAL teaching of the Bible concerning who Jesus is.

The distinctions you have presented are known to us, and embraced by us. But we also accept the rest of the Bible, which says things you do not seem to believe.

Also, you seem very confused about what we actually believe. You make up words and claim we believe them, when WE never said such things.

This is all new, coming from you. You have been here long enough to be familiar with what we believe. And now, all suddenly, you discover we are heretics? I think you have recently changed your belief, and now you feel the need to correct everyone.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

1You are teaching that Jesus did not have the Spirit of God until he was Baptized?
2You are teaching that the Word is some abstract thought and not "the word was God"?
3You teach there was a birth and after God came inside Jesus?

1)ι just explain how God was in Christ. we dont know how and what our Lord did before that moment, but that is how God manifest in flesh. The Spirit came upon the man Jesus.
Until that moment we jnow for sure, that Jesus was subjected to his parents like the law said, and in general was completing the law.
2)Ι dodnt teach anything, i just say that the Word means (reason,though) and yes, Jesus was not a second God, but the reason to do all was God himself.
3)No i did not said a birth after, but the borth when The Spirit came upon Mary, that child was born (that is birth)

Now can you concentrate to what i said (Scripture actually speak) and not just search the negative? i am more oneness than you think. My Father is Jesus, but how thats happen is what i spoke at the previous post. Do yyou agree?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Peter, the Logos was God, not some "plan of God". If the Logos was God, and the Logos was made flesh (human), then God was made flesh (human).

There is only one God, the Father, but the apostles called Jesus our great God and Saviour.

You are ignoring the verses which clearly teach that Jesus IS God. You seem to think that Jesus is ONLY a man in whom God dwells. You do not accept the COMPLETE and TOTAL teaching of the Bible concerning who Jesus is.

The distinctions you have presented are known to us, and embraced by us. But we also accept the rest of the Bible, which says things you do not seem to believe.

Also, you seem very confused about what we actually believe. You make up words and claim we believe them, when WE never said such things.

This is all new, coming from you. You have been here long enough to be familiar with what we believe. And now, all suddenly, you discover we are heretics? I think you have recently changed your belief, and now you feel the need to correct everyone.

So the Logos was God WITH God? No! that is a second God.
The Logos means (reason,thought and expression of that thought) even Bernard David know that.
Thgis is not all me or new. That is what ALL CHURCH believe, We are just aware of the USA oneness that is "old good heresy"
You dodn agree with me means you dont agree with Bible, becuse all what i wrote was Bible.
But that is the real Oneness (even Gino Jennings and other Americans) believe the same as we.
What makes you to dont agree with me? Becasue i did not said "Jesus came as his own son" or "God had the office of Son"?

"In the beginning was the reason, and the reason was God himself, that was at the beginning with God.
And the reason was made flseh"
FLESH=SON (and we saw his glory ,glory like begotten MONOGEIS from his Father"
God was In Christ..? do you agree that Father was insise the man Jesus or no? i would just say Amnen>
Now tell me how Jesus was inherited from His Father then? Is that mine or Scriptute?
Just read again and see that what i said it is Bible.
Father-Diety and Son=flesh.
how the hell would God pray to himself? It was not the flesh? How the hell he TOOK and INDERITED ? and from WHOM?

Amen brother..

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by peter83

So the Logos was God WITH God? No! that is a second God.
The Logos means (reason,thought and expression of that thought) even Bernard David know that.
Thgis is not all me or new. That is what ALL CHURCH believe, We are just aware of the USA oneness that is "old good heresy"
You dodn agree with me means you dont agree with Bible, becuse all what i wrote was Bible.
But that is the real Oneness (even Gino Jennings and other Americans) believe the same as we.
What makes you to dont agree with me? Becasue i did not said "Jesus came as his own son" or "God had the office of Son"?

"In the beginning was the reason, and the reason was God himself, that was at the beginning with God.
And the reason was made flseh"
FLESH=SON (and we saw his glory ,glory like begotten MONOGEIS from his Father"
God was In Christ..? do you agree that Father was insise the man Jesus or no? i would just say Amnen>
Now tell me how Jesus was inherited from His Father then? Is that mine or Scriptute?
Just read again and see that what i said it is Bible.
Father-Diety and Son=flesh.
how the hell would God pray to himself? It was not the flesh? How the hell he TOOK and INDERITED ? and from WHOM?

Amen brother..

Hey friend you should not be talking like this. Its OK to debate but Christians dont respond this way.