The "tithe" rears its ugly head yet again

[Originalist]

We attended a particular church from 2010-2013 (over 3 years), for the first two years I attended there I gave roughly 20% of my gross business income in offerings to that church, which amounted to between 200-300 dollars a month. I refuse to say I "tithed" because I simply do not believe in that teaching. On my checks or offering envelopes I always write "General Offering". On my yearly giving statement it always showed my "tithes" for the year as zero.

Well, in late 2011 my business income vanished for good. I was left with subsisting on about a thousand dollars a month with a wife and 2 kids. My wife did not work because we had one car. At the exact same time this happened, our pastor got up in December of 2011 and told the church that he had not taken a salary for 2 month due to a slump in offerings. Many people's incomes had dried up. But he appealed for sacrificial giving lest the bank have to foreclose, etc etc. I felt horrible because I knew I was going to have to let him know that my giving was about to plummet. Long story short, he blamed my financial woes on a "lack of giving" even after I let the cat out of the bag that I had been giving 20% of my gross business income up until that point. That fact had no effect on his stoic mind set. So we ended up leaving there. Just the other day that church spent 18 grand on new stage lighting.

Jump ahead to now. We have been attending a much smaller church since 2013, about 30 people (after 12 years). The pastor is the former assistant of the church we left. He also had been hurt by that pastor.

My financial situation has gotten no better except for having eliminated some debt. I live off of pert time work. I finally had to buy a new car as my 2002 Chevy with 210 thousand miles is dying. We have lived rent free in my sister's mobile home for 6 years but she sold it and we have to be out by Oct 8. So we are moving in with my 84 yr old dad temporarily which will put us 36 miles from our church and my work. I literally made 100 dollars over the summer and am just getting some sub teaching jobs which is my only income. My pastor knows my situation. But that "stoic" thinking on tithing is rearing its ugly head anyway. One cannot tithe on what they have not made. I have not asked for help nor do I desire it. I just try to be faithful to church and be a loving servant to my brothers. Somehow that is not good enough. My wife is furious and ready to leave. What is wrong with these "leaders"? My "tithes" since June 20 would only be 32 dollars to begin with. I'll gladly give it next payday. But you see my point, and so should they.

[shazeep]

aw, you are in my prayers O, i am witnessing a somewhat similar failure of...expectations? with my mom, who has always been a generous giver. I have my opinions as to why, but they are pointless, and i'm not sure what the lesson is. Good people seem to be being ushered out of church, almost.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by shazeep

aw, you are in my prayers O, i am witnessing a somewhat similar failure of...expectations? with my mom, who has always been a generous giver. I have my opinions as to why, but they are pointless, and i'm not sure what the lesson is. Good people seem to be being ushered out of church, almost.

I've come to the conclusion that many pastors are not really interested in having a church full of mature, disciples, spiritual people who have their eyes on Jesus and know how to rightly divide the word. They'd rather have a church full of perpetual spiritual infants who will be forever dependent on the pastor.

Paul said, "be no more children". Pastors do not agree.

[shazeep]

ya, seems to me they mostly begin their ministry under a conflict of interests; maybe that is a lesson here. But i'm sure not in a position to judge. I'd say let them be them, and do what you think best based upon that, but it sure seems twisted to essentially be required to pay money to congregate with like-minded people. And the poor pastor is just the guy in the middle usually, i'm sure. They get coerced into the role of Priest, as often as they invite it, i think. speaking generally.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I've come to the conclusion that many pastors are not really interested in having a church full of mature, disciples, spiritual people who have their eyes on Jesus and know how to rightly divide the word. They'd rather have a church full of perpetual spiritual infants who will be forever dependent on the pastor.

Paul said, "be no more children". Pastors do not agree.

Cannot agree with you more. I have seen this to be true over the years.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I've come to the conclusion that many pastors are not really interested in having a church full of mature, disciples, spiritual people who have their eyes on Jesus and know how to rightly divide the word. They'd rather have a church full of perpetual spiritual infants who will be forever dependent on the pastor.

Paul said, "be no more children". Pastors do not agree.

[shazeep]

i am suddenly finding lots of Indy churches with...less coercive? models. Surely there are some OP leaning indies?

[Rudy]

[QUOTE=Originalist;1448266]We attended a particular church from 2010-2013 (over 3 years), for the first two years I attended there I gave roughly 20% of my gross business income in offerings to that church, which amounted to between 200-300 dollars a month. I refuse to say I "tithed" because I simply do not believe in that teaching. On my checks or offering envelopes I always write "General Offering". On my yearly giving statement it always showed my "tithes" for the year as zero.

Well, in late 2011 my business income vanished for good. I was left with subsisting on about a thousand dollars a month with a wife and 2 kids. My wife did not work because we had one car. At the exact same time this happened, our pastor got up in December of 2011 and told the church that he had not taken a salary for 2 month due to a slump in offerings. Many people's incomes had dried up. But he appealed for sacrificial giving lest the bank have to foreclose, etc etc. I felt horrible because I knew I was going to have to let him know that my giving was about to plummet. Long story short, he blamed my financial woes on a "lack of giving" even after I let the cat out of the bag that I had been giving 20% of my gross business income up until that point. That fact had no effect on his stoic mind set. So we ended up leaving there. Just the other day that church spent 18 grand on new stage lighting.

Jump ahead to now. We have been attending a much smaller church since 2013, about 30 people (after 12 years). The pastor is the former assistant of the church we left. He also had been hurt by that pastor.

My financial situation has gotten no better except for having eliminated some debt. I live off of pert time work. I finally had to buy a new car as my 2002 Chevy with 210 thousand miles is dying. We have lived rent free in my sister's mobile home for 6 years but she sold it and we have to be out by Oct 8. So we are moving in with my 84 yr old dad temporarily which will put us 36 miles from our church and my work. I literally made 100 dollars over the summer and am just getting some sub teaching jobs which is my only income. My pastor knows my situation. But that "stoic" thinking on tithing is rearing its ugly head anyway. One cannot tithe on what they have not made. I have not asked for help nor do I desire it. I just try to be faithful to church and be a loving servant to my brothers. Somehow that is not good enough. My wife is furious and ready to leave. What is wrong with these "leaders"? My "tithes" since June 20 would only be 32 dollars to begin with. I'll gladly give it next payday. But you see my point, and so should they.[/QUOTE

Come to the Fort!! Fort Wayne.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

One cannot tithe on what they have not made.

This is why offerings aren't supposed to ever be asked for by the ministry.

An evangelist isn't supposed to call a church and tell them what he wants to get paid to preach. He goes expecting the Lord to take care of everything. The Lord does, whether its 15 dollars or 150 dollars. Jesus knows all about it. The ministry isn't supposed to be asking anyone for an offering. I know, I know, people do it over the pulpit and when someone comes to the office. But, it's not supposed to happen that way. Matthew 10:8-9 paint the apostles as individuals who went out expecting nothing for what they were doing. Jesus told them to not even take gold, silver or their money belts. They would be provided for supernaturally. Sorry, to hear about your situation my dear friend, but hooking up with the assistant pastor from a church which everyone had issues, sometimes after time ends up becoming the church you left.

Love you and praying for you all in Jesus name

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Come to the Fort!! Fort Wayne.