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11-12-2007, 02:39 PM
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His Eminance, High Potatohead Potatotate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockton, California
Posts: 5,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neckstadt
Saints feel the pressure when the pastor talks about money every sunday as well.
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Maybe the Pastor wouldn't have to talk about it if folks would give cheerfully and faithfully... then everybody would be happy...
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11-12-2007, 02:39 PM
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"It's Never Too Late"
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blsdbeyondmsure
Are you kidding??? Not all success in ministry can be tied to attendance nor can all increase in attendance be tied to the Pastor's abilities. Remember, God gives the increase.
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Kidding! Show me any measure to show success and add that measurable item to their performance. Then tie a bonus structure to it.
We in the real world have to show success.
I know if a church runs 70 people 10 years after a pastor takes over.
That is not success...
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11-12-2007, 02:41 PM
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"It's Never Too Late"
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy
Maybe the Pastor wouldn't have to talk about it if folks would give cheerfully and faithfully... then everybody would be happy...
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It's not about the giving etc. Many give beyond their means. It has become a culture in church today to talk about sowing as relating only to money.
In the case of the wealthy.
They stop giving as much if money is mentioned to much...
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11-12-2007, 02:47 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
It might not just be preachers that have to give an account for their excess and abundance, though they are the ones that get most of the criticism.
Just a thought.
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Good point. We all need to be good stewards. And cheerful givers.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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11-12-2007, 02:53 PM
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www.capitalcommunity.ca
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,300
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People don't pay for music at weddings in our neck of the woods...so I don't do em'!
I also pretty much "volunteer" as a music director while those State-side doing much less, make a whole bunch more than I do...It's all good...I WILL get a reward someday, a solid gold Fender Telecaster in heaven with a Marshall Stack, woohoo!
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11-12-2007, 02:53 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neckstadt
It's not about the giving etc. Many give beyond their means. It has become a culture in church today to talk about sowing as relating only to money.
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Hmmm...start asking folks to give of their time, effort, and sweat, and see where that gets you. Most folks would RATHER throw money in the offering and leave work to others. JMO. 
Look, my Daddy pastored a home missions church at one point, and there were many times when he HAD to get up and let the church folks know that if they didn't get a certain amount in the offering, the lights would be turned off. That is just a practical matter. I also have known my parents to turn around and put half (or more) of their scant tithes right back into the church to keep it running, not once, but on countless occasions.
Running a church requires addressing practical matters, and the church is supposed to have all things in common...aren't they? If there is a bill to be paid, it SHOULD be brought before the church and worked out TOGETHER. The pastor shouldn't have to bear that burden alone. I, quite frankly, would be upset if there was a need in our church, and we weren't informed, and therefore allowed to contribute or help, monetarily or otherwise.
Some of ya'll act like talking about money is wrong. They certainly discussed it and addressed it in the New Testament church.
Quote:
In the case of the wealthy.
They stop giving as much if money is mentioned to much...
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Then shame on them for their unchristian attitudes and lack of generosity. Funny you should make excuses for wealthy saints. Ironic, almost.
The pastor shouldn't have to pander to the "wealthy" in order to pay bills and take care of his family. Those who withhold funds as a way of controlling their pastor and the church...well, they are going to answer to God for their ungodliness. 
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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11-12-2007, 02:59 PM
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www.capitalcommunity.ca
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,300
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We were in Bangor, Maine 2 weekends ago and I saw TBN. We don't get that channell in our area...I watched an entire show that talked about money, a mercedez-benz donated to the preacher and how God was making him rich!!!! Then telling folks to give for their own rewards....I was sick to my stomach, not 1 mention of the Cross, repentence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was soooo mad.
Yes, I do believe in giving...but when that is the whole focus? Sheeesh! Thas wacked!
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11-12-2007, 03:01 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyman
We were in Bangor, Maine 2 weekends ago and I saw TBN. We don't get that channell in our area...I watched an entire show that talked about money, a mercedez-benz donated to the preacher and how God was making him rich!!!! Then telling folks to give for their own rewards....I was sick to my stomach, not 1 mention of the Cross, repentence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was soooo mad.
Yes, I do believe in giving...but when that is the whole focus? Sheeesh! Thas wacked!
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TBN is not a reflection of what goes on in most Pentecostal church services. (At least, not any I've ever attended, and I've been to a LOT.)
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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11-12-2007, 03:42 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neckstadt
Kidding! Show me any measure to show success and add that measurable item to their performance. Then tie a bonus structure to it.
We in the real world have to show success.
I know if a church runs 70 people 10 years after a pastor takes over.
That is not success...
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I agree with your assesment. A bonus structure is good. Your naysayer needs to think of this. If a CEO is running a company and the company grows it is not all directly related to what he/she did. Somethings may be but not all point to him as being the reason, but the company had a 10% growth, do you think the CEO gets a raise? You betcha. I am not for the church to be a business at all, but if the church grows by 10% that does mean more people and with more people the potential for more troubles. I think that it is a fair thing to place a bonus structure there. But also tie in something like tenure increase. 5+yrs 5k increase, 15+yrs 10k increase....whatever your choice is. This way there is an accountability factor.
My home church in Tn the men got together the first Sunday of the month. Fellowship and business were all that was on the menu. At least once a year the pay/salary was brought up for a vote increase or stay the same. Honestly every year they voted for and increase. There is always 1 person that votes for a decrease guess who...the pastor himself. Since obviously he gets out voted he gives most of the money himself to missions or offerings etc. They vote on his autos, his home and vaction time. Every year they vote for an increase but every year he gives it back.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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11-12-2007, 03:51 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,362
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A pastors heart is reflected in how he gives back to his people. Unfortunately, Bishop Kilgore has given ALL of his savings away. Has given his cars away, so now his son has to put them in his name.
People take advantage of good hearted people! I am ALL for the pastor giving when the need is truly there. In fact, IF he has it and doesn't give it I think he will be held accountable. At least for the widows and orphans. Don't know about anyone else.
But NEVER in my opinion should a pastor give to the point his own family suffers.
God blesses those that give with a CHEERFUL heart.
__________________
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
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