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Old 05-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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RevDWW RevDWW is offline
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Personal Convictions VS. Corporate Standards

Are the lines blurred between personal convictions and the "Standards" of the Corporate Body of the UPC and other organizations?

What do you see as the benefits and/or drawbacks to both?

Are "Standards" salvational? All of them? Some of them? Which ones?

Should we judge others if they don't meet with our personal convictions?

Any scripture to shed light on this subject?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

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Old 05-29-2007, 04:15 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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I believe we are to obey the Bible and abide by our own personal convictions.
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:21 PM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevDWW View Post
Are the lines blurred between personal convictions and the "Standards" of the Corporate Body of the UPC and other organizations?

What do you see as the benefits and/or drawbacks to both?

Are "Standards" salvational? All of them? Some of them? Which ones?

Should we judge others if they don't meet with our personal convictions?

Any scripture to shed light on this subject?
I think this is a great topic. I think perhaps "corporate standards" should be left to things that are clearly biblical. All others should be personal.
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:47 PM
pob406
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I think that there are times when lines are blurred between personal convictions and corporate standards. A person may not have a conviction that is taught by their organization or vice versa.

Some standards don't apply to some people. I for instance am a low maintenance woman. Make up and jewelry are not issues for me. So telling me not to wear make up or jewelry isn't going to ruffle my feathers. It’s a relief. On the other hand not wearing make up or jewelry doesn't make me feel closer to the Lord. I makes me feel like I have extra time to focus on things that are more important to me.

I think one obvious drawback to corporate standards is that people who don't conform (where they have no convictions) are limited in their church participation. On the other hand people that obey corporate standards have more access to ministry positions. People could be obeying standards for the wrong reasons.

I don't believe that all standards are salvational. I do believe that we are commanded to keep ourselves unspotted from the world. I also believe that if you are a friend of the world you are an enemy of God.

I don't judge people by their convictions. If a person has different convictions or no convictions that is none of my business. None of us are in heaven yet. I pray that I never become so sanctimonious and Pharisaic that I can't enjoy the fellowship of people that aren't exactly like me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RevDWW View Post
Are the lines blurred between personal convictions and the "Standards" of the Corporate Body of the UPC and other organizations?

What do you see as the benefits and/or drawbacks to both?

Are "Standards" salvational? All of them? Some of them? Which ones?

Should we judge others if they don't meet with our personal convictions?

Any scripture to shed light on this subject?
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:52 PM
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revrandy revrandy is offline
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Maybe if we paid folks hourly.. they could find it easier to have some standards in their life!!!!




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Old 05-29-2007, 05:01 PM
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Maybe if we paid folks hourly.. they could find it easier to have some standards in their life!!!!




Yes but are you willing to pay for 24/7?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:03 PM
philjones
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Yes but are you willing to pay for 24/7?
Add x 365 to that.. I noticed that your slave master had a large number of his employees at the office on Monday! Were you there?

I missed seeing you Sunday morning... my wife and I were there for Bro. A's 50 years between calvary and pentecost!
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philjones View Post
Add x 365 to that.. I noticed that your slave master had a large number of his employees at the office on Monday! Were you there?

I missed seeing you Sunday morning... my wife and I were there for Bro. A's 50 years between calvary and pentecost!
Yes I was "memorializing" right here at the office. We do not have Memorial Day off. They did cook us lunch and I'll show up just about anywhere there is free food.....that's one of my closets personal convictions.......

Did not make it Sunday A.M. as the ole alarm clock did not wake us and we slept until after 9am. Being almost an hour away it was too late to get going. Sunday night was good!

I take it someone miss spoke.........

You should have stopped by and said howdy. I could have offered you a cup of coffee.
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:05 PM
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Shouldn't standards should be in effect to bring about consistency?

Every secular job I've held has had a set of standards on conduct and dress. I am a computer programmer and there are sets of programming standards. You can make a program work outside of the standards, but it makes it hard to maintain and hard for others to fix if your not around. Standards are not bad or wrong. Misapplication of standards can cause great problems as well as non-conformity to standards.
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:51 PM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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I believe that there is a limit to having standards and a limit in not having them. It seems to me that across this movement that they are varying definition of standards. Some call it Holiness, while some call it a dress code. I tend to fall in the latter catagory.

The fact is that no one can live with out some sort of standards in their life. I know people that would never go to Applebees because of the bar, but would go to the theater. People have different conviction and different limits.

I tend to see standards not so much as Holiness, even though at times it has been called that. I see standards as a way to help protect your Holiness. To say there is a standard of Holiness is to say that a non-stop fly accually never stops. It is not the case. No one can standardize Holiness. God calls all to Holiness, but not all to a dress code. I know some people that see standards as places you go and do not go more so than what you wear, cut, or color. Holiness is like character. True Holiness is shown best when you are alone with no one watching.

Modesty is always the best policy. My 14 yr old sister-in-law has shirt that says "Modest is Hottest." A cute saying used in order to state that it is proper to be modest. This I believe. The critical factor in this is what is modest. This answer also varies throughout this movement. I think of it this way, modesty an attitude before it is a dress code. How many time have you seen one of the youth of your church or another wearing a skirt that is les modest than if they wear in a bikini. It happens. I saw it when I was a YP. Modesty is God's and parents call.

I have convictions that my father never had. I am sure that my children will have higher convictions than I. I feel personally that most people in the UPC and other like organizations are following a system of what other men tell them the scripture means and not reading and discovering it for themselves. Time and time again we are told by ministers to search the scriptures. Study. But the very moment we do and see something different than what they see, believe or teach then you are ostrisized.

The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembeling. Every needs a "work out."
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