Tithing…Is it a command?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Do you pay taxes? Why?

Because it is required by law.

Our giving comes from a better place. Our heart is compelled to do so by the Spirit of our God that lives within us.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

Speaking of money, there was the Temple tax that was required of everyone who used the Temple, and that tax was earmarked for Temple maintenance. Then there were the money changers, where folks from different parts of the world could come and exchange their “whatever” money into shekels to buy the required sacrificial animals and/or pay their Temple tax. There was also the need to sell one’s sacrifice and carry money when one lived too far away to bring all that produce and/or livestock to Jerusalem. But, what they did with all that money after getting to Jerusalem? Mercy! It would make a Pentecostal preacher dizzy with shock and disbelief! But, God approved of it and even provided instructions for the use of that money!

However, I think there is a growing number of folks still lurking about and waiting for the teaching on biblical tithing and how those statutes are to be scripturally applied to the church today.

Please, sound Bible teaching! If New Covenant tithing is not just another doctrine created by men, for men, then provide us with the legitimate biblical doctrine! This is not an unreasonable request, especially for those who stand as teachers of the Law!

BTW, as noted by another, I have not read one word in this entire thread where anyone advocated, condoned, or otherwise supported the idea of not maintaining either their church facilities or providing support to ministers of the gospel. However, fostering unearned or unmerited guilt is a poor substitute for sound arguments.

Recommendation: Stick to the subject at hand. Is tithing a command?

BTW, as noted by another, I have not read one word in this entire thread where anyone advocated, condoned, or otherwise supported the idea of not maintaining either their church facilities or providing support to ministers of the gospel. However, fostering unearned or unmerited guilt is a poor substitute for sound arguments.

Brother, this is where I become confused. Providing support by a percentage, the Tenth, is the witch-hunt by all who don't see the Tithe as Biblical.

Money, in the terms of percentage, is the way of life. Taxes, wages, prices, interest, dividends, profits, losses, values. Money is governed by these laws, period. Money is bound by numbers and math.

We don't go to work ignorant of our pay. We know what we work for. We go to the counter to pay for our food, clothing, and other goods, knowing the price.

What is so wrong about this applying to the Kingdom of God? Why do we submit to this monetary system in every facet of our lives, and do it willingly, but when it comes to sustaining the work of God we fight it, argue about it, and simply don't want to admit that percentage is OK?

This isn't about Heaven or Hell. It's about support, care, and the futherence of the Gospel. To maintain the practice that we give to mammon (Jobs, banks, stores, other people). This is about principle. This is about the facts of life and how systems require our time, money, patience and hard work.

I'm about done sharing my points on this post. I'm frustrated because we do everything and anything for our physical lives, demanding percentages and wanting to know the bottom line. But the Church? People can just figure that out for themselves. This doesn't make sense.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I'm about done sharing my points on this post. I'm frustrated because we do everything and anything for our physical lives, demanding percentages and wanting to know the bottom line. But the Church? People can just figure that out for themselves. This doesn't make sense.

My friend, the issue has never been about supporting the ministry, the gospel, or even maintaining church facilities,or if tithing is not acceptable unto the Lord.

It has all been about false doctrine. That is why tithing can not be taught in an open forum where points and arguments can be openly challenged (in most churches that kind of exchange is not permitted), so the doctrine continues, even by ministers who honestly believe that tithing is supported in the Bible, but who can't support their position from scripture (quoting out of context does not qualify and is unacceptable).

The general arguments always fall back on "personal experience" and using selected verses that have the "appearance" of support a New Testament tithing concept.

Is there anything "wrong" with tithing? God forbid! But what many men have done to the saints of God with this teaching, as a spiritual requirement, is worthy of a curse from God!

When tithing to the pastor is a requirement in order to minister within the body, that is nothing short of paying a personal tribute or even a bribe, regardless of what spiritually sounding term may be applied. The abuses this doctrine has gendered within the church are legendary.

The argument for this misuse is often justified by the argument, if we do not teach tithing as a spiritual requirement, then the people will not give enough to support this ministry. That, in and of its self, is an indictment against the teachers, not the saints!

Why have the saints not been taught the true biblical principles of giving (reaping and sowing), rather than trying to bribe God with their giving: You can't out give God - this a true statement made into a lie. To give in order "to get" is to put God under obligation. a prevision of the scriptures.

Will God give in response to one's personal giving? Absolutely! But look at what it is that God expects one to give and for what purpose. It is not what is most often comes across the pulpit.

Sound teaching - that is what the saints of God are starting to expect and even to demand. The old "you do it because I said so" simply does not work very well any more. There is new movement among believers that is showing its self as a demand for "what does the Bible say - what does it mean and how do I use it?"

Finally, I do not doubt that there are some churches that are not worthy of being supported, should be closed down and started over by men and women who are actually called of God to the job. It is time that the false teachers and prophets be exposed and ran off. And scripturally, that is the responsibility of the assembly, not another wolf.

[Shawn]

The only thing I noticed is the thread wanted scriptural evidence on tithing, and someone keeps sharing opinions/points. Show scripture. Prove your point.

[A.W. Bowman]

Perhaps it is time to repost this:

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The initial part of the following was posted earlier in the thread. However, it is republished here with some major editorial changes and several added notes and comments:

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If one is going to teach tithing, then one must teach all of the biblical tithing doctrine - from the very laws from which this doctrine is derived: All eight (even 10) of them. However, most teachers today have no real knowledge or understanding of the tithing precept, or why after the death of Christ, it is never mentioned again, even by inference.

Is a workman worthy of his hire? Absolutely! No question about that. Should a local assembly take on the responsibility of supporting those who labor among them? Absolutely! Do those who "require" tithing actually believe in what they teach? Only a few! Most continue to grasp firmly to their secular jobs, not trusting in God to really meet their needs through the gospel they preach. Even so, if one is going to follow Paul's example, then they should leave the subject of tithing alone and support themselves, so as not to be a burden on the assembly.

No where in the scriptures are we allowed to establish our case on just a few laws, in order to support our favorite, sanctioned doctrines. If we appeal to just one written ordinance (take it down from the cross), are we not committed then to the entire package? Yet, the law of God still has a legitimate role to play in the life of a N.T. Christian (but, that is another study). As was pointed out on an earlier post, unlike the people of old, we actually own nothing, but are simply stewards of God’s creation, much like Adam and Eve! They owned nothing while maintaining control and responsibility over everything.

Yet, my personal position on tithing is that ten percent of my income is good a starting point for personal giving – when I have it to give – to support the work of the kingdom of God. Actually, according to the law, I am legally a double recipient of the Levitical tithe. Of course, according to our modern interpretation (rejection) of the law, I am also excluded from receiving my otherwise lawful portion that the statutes allocate to me. And no, I am not a pastor! Even so, the purpose of the tithe was eliminated along with the destruction of the Temple and the disbanding of its hereditary Levitical priesthood. Now, if we are required to support a Temple replacement, i.e. the local church building, then let’s identify it for what it is, a levy on the congregation of a resurrected Temple tax, separate from any tithing issue. And, everyone who labors within our new temple, from grounds keepers to ushers and greeters to “temple” maintenance people are to receive their equal share of the tithes as their legally mandated support. Also, with this law in affect, then the ministerial responsibilities must also be rotated throughout the allocated rotation periods (not just one pastor, but many), following the same laws of purity (e.g., one cannot serve in the temple with an issues of blood or with a deformity). When the law is applied without understanding (1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.) one quickly digs themselves into a very deep hole.

An interesting site, with a little hype and some substance, may be found at: www.nomoretithing.org

A final comment: If anyone is convicted in their heart that tithing is a personal requirement upon you – even established and settled by the Spirit of God, then by all means continue to tithe! Do not allow anyone to persuade you differently! If, on the other hand you are convinced that you should give according to your ability, intent and clear conscience before God then let that be your guide. And, let us all be joyful in our hearts with the free giving of our substance to further the work of our Lord’s kingdom, and not under compulsion or the judgments of men.

For those who wish to teach on tithing, here is the place to start:

The Ten Mitzvot concerning tithes:

- Not to eat untithed fruits Lev. 22:15
- To separate the tithe for the poor Deut. 14:28
- To set aside Terumah Gedolah (tithe for the Kohen) Deut. 18:4
- The Levite must set aside a tenth of his tithe Num. 18:26
- Not to preface one tithe to the next, but separate them in their proper order
Ex. 22:28
- To set aside Ma'aser (tithe) each planting year and give it to a Levite Num. 18:24
- To set aside the second tithe (Ma'aser Sheni) Deut. 14:22
- To read the confession of tithes every fourth and seventh year Deut. 26:13
- Separate the tithe from animals Lev. 27:32
- Not to redeem the tithe Lev. 27:33

To understand what these laws represent and how they should be observed (followed, obeyed), may I suggest a complete reading of the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy and then study the Midrash concerning these books.

To this study, add the teaching:

- Who makes up the priesthood in the church (assembly, synagogue) today?
- From whom does that priesthood receive tithes, when everyone is a member of that same royal priesthood?
- To whom does the priesthood pay their tithes on the tithes they have received? The High Priest? And, who is that, if not Jesus Christ, Himself?
- So, what is the biblical bases for tithing (not giving, offerings, etc.) in the church today (as referenced above, book, chapter and verse would be nice.)?

Homework: If a church has 10 people who make $25,000.00 year (about $2,083.33 per month, $481/wk, or $12/hr) and tithe 10% on the gross (the full amount before taxes), how much does the pastor receive? (Hint: $25,000) If there are 20 people? (2ed hint: $50,000) If there are 40 people? (Last hint: $100,000). How much is enough for one man to receive for his support from the congregation with an average annual income of $25,000? At what point does providing simple support for one man and his family cease being support, and turns into the “making merchandize of the saints”?

Of course, this does not include congregational requirements to finance special projects, building funds, trips, conferences and gifts for the ministry, pledges for building and grounds maintenance, utilities, upgraded multimedia systems and air-conditioning units, etc., etc. Generally, there isn’t much left over for the poor, the hurting, the sick and infirm, the elderly, help for the man or women getting out of prison, a girl in need of a helping hand, or, just as important, offering assistance to the sinner and their family who have no where to turn except to the streets, etc. Some times I feel like I am in bondage to a building, rather than to God! Regardless of the justifications given, when giving to support a building becomes as (or more) important as supporting the salvation effort of a soul or providing medical assistance to a family member, that building has become an idol. When a building or a “servant” must be ministered unto before those things that God has set as His (and should be our) priorities, then we have truly robbed God. Not in tithes and offerings, but in following after false gods.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Your hard line approach to avoid the Tithe is typical to those who don't want to share the load. You'll pay your taxes, but you won't pay God, only because the Law of the land says to do so. Oh, but when God puts a Law down, you fight it, because you LOVE money!

so you admit tithing is a return to Law?



I'm being bold here because money is a huge crossroad for people. The rich young ruler went away from God's will, all because of his wealth. The man with full barns was called a fool. Christians today are doing the same thing. I'll serve you God, as long as you don't touch my pocketbook or my barns!

Originally Posted by NotforSale

When will people realize, Churches are built upon the backbone of those who Tithe!!

Churches are built on the backbone of faithful praying saints. I'll give you a church full of well to do, when is my next tee time tithers, and I'll take a church with people on social security, who give as they can, but pray, and have a burden for the lost,etc. Whose has the better chance to effect their world?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This isn't about Heaven or Hell.

BUMP:

Originally Posted by Jason

If you teach those who don't tithe are robbers and thieves of God-does not scripture tell us thieves will not inherit the Kingdom of God? It is impossible to really teach the necessity of tithing and say those who don't aren't going to hell.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by jason

great, then you should be well equipped to prove your assertion that tithing is required of new testament saints.

please show me one scripture in the entire bible where any one single person tithed money. Certainly it's in there-right?

So you can tell us or show us where we can find scripture for tithing being money. Surely any well versed can teach us this simple doctrine. If i asked you to show me baptism in jesus name-would you not go right to scripture instead of personal opinions. If its in there-lay it out for us.

bump
not for sale

[A.W. Bowman]

Everyone here should know by now that I am not a qualified teacher of God's word. I am only a "serious student" of the Word.

James 3:1 ¶ Be not many of you teachers (a), my brethren, knowing that we shall receive (1) heavier judgment. (a) masters [KJV]. (1) Gr greater)

However, I am prepared to show a slightly different path of study, for those who are interested.

There is a place and a role for the Law to play in our lives. We can find it if we will just read the Bible with a little understanding, rather than interpreting it through our doctrinal filters. This approach is necessary because no doctrine of man (created by and through his own reasoning) is without error. Therefore, once the doctrinal filters are firmly in place, further "clear revelation" from God and His word is very difficult to receive. For example, it is an established fact that one is not to receive a "new revelation" concerning God unless it is (1) also revealed in the scriptures or (2) does not conflict (or contradict) scripture. These rules are good and necessary. But, if one is blind to the written word of scripture, then all further revelation - based on that word - is also lost to the reader. Because of this human failing, religious wars have been fought.

When studying (not casual or general reading) the Bible, two of the important rules to keep in mind are (1) keep a good language lexicon (not a dictionary) handy and (2) a copy of a good original language Bible text. The purpose is to investigate the original meanings of the key words in each passage. I can discuss this requirement in a little more detail, later.

The truth? We cannot separate the law and being in obedience to it from grace and "freedom from the law". They are two sides of the same coin, i.e. without the law, grace has no meaning. Without grace, the law is without mercy and justice cannot be served.

So, the entire issue around tithing that has been discussed on this thread, in addition to being a question concerning the cleaning up of false doctrines, it is symptomatic of how we all (every one of us) frequently fail to correctly divide the word of truth.

While I have yet a very long way to go in this study, I am willing to share some of the material I have gleaned so far.

The study can be generally understood in terms of: What is the Law of God and what role or function does is it to play in the lives of Christians?

This study is the integration of three different on-going studies.

What is the Law of God and how is that law reflected in the seven (even eight) covenants made between God and man.

Looking behind the veil of the law, a study of Mathew, chapters five through seven.

The limits placed on the law and of grace.

While I am still working on these studies, I cannot forecast how long it will take - or even the direction it will go, or the final conclusions that I will draw from the study(ies). But, that is the wonder of a Bible study based on the word and on the Spirit, rather than on predefined doctrines and organizational dogma.

Most likely I will conduct the open portion of this study on my own site - and every one is welcome to monitor it there. I will conduct it there because I have already made a couple of false starts in posting a few thoughts already, and there has been some interest in joining such a study by a couple of folks from other forums. In this way, I can just post everything once, rather than all over the Internet! Joining the community is an option for posting questions and comments, but member ship is not required to audit the study.

We do request a real name however, to help weed out spammers (we get 2-6 per day). If anyone wishes to join and has a concern about using a real name - PM me for arrangements.

For every one else - you will not be missing out on very much! Just the rambling of an old mountain man.

[A.W. Bowman]

Sorry for all of the typos. I think I got most of them cleaned up now.