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  #11  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:30 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

Wii, you are using the number of American deaths as a criteria but Seek wasn't.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:44 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Wii, you are using the number of American deaths as a criteria but Seek wasn't.
Look again. I ran American and worldwide deaths Prax. 8969 total global, all people everywhere over (43) years.

That's safer than my or your town LOL
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:49 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
Look again. I ran American and worldwide deaths Prax. 8969 total global, all people everywhere over (43) years.

That's safer than my or your town LOL
A town isn't a religion or a terrorist group
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by odooley6985 View Post
All three religions were/are violent. I always lol when people say Islam was spread by the sword. So was Judaism and Christianity. Its just that the later have gone away from their violent pasts where Islam hasnt.
Bull, bull, and more bull.

Judaism was not "spread by the sword". Yes, God used the sword of man to establish the nation of Israel. But Israel did not then try to conquer and enslave the nations around them and force Judaism on them. These are the tactics of Islam.

True Christianity was never spread by the sword. Catholicism was, but that is not Christianity.

Last edited by Originalist; 05-15-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:54 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by larrylyates View Post
Seekerman, I realize you and I have our differences (though I would be pleased to tone down my rhetoric ) but this Thread is awesome! You have truly done some excellent research and present it in such a way that the facts speak for themselves. They speak so loudly that none can respond except in silent sorrow.

Thank you for posting this and for the lengths you have gone to to silence the opposition with the simple truth.
I second that.
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:54 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
A town isn't a religion or a terrorist group
The argument is that Islam is violent. If so, I would expect the violence to be statistically higher than, say, being struck by lightning.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:57 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
There are 1 billion Muslims worldwide. There are 2.8 Muslims in the United States. There are 16.3 American citizens living abroad.

How many Americans have been killed in terrorist attacks inside the United States since the September 11, 2001, atrocities? Arguably 16. Egyptian Hesham Mohamed Hadayet killed two Israelis at the El Al ticket counter at the Los Angeles airport on July 4, 2002. On June 1, 2009, Abdulhakim Muhammed killed one soldier at a recruiting center in Little Rock, Arkansas, and Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan killed 13 soldiers during a shooting rampage in at Fort Hood, Texas in November 2009.

Of course, the police and politicians will cite the lack of deaths from terrorism as evidence that their protective measures are working. Earlier this year, the conservative Heritage Foundation compiled a list of 39 terror plots that had been foiled since September 2001. Going through the list, about 23 of the plots might plausibly have resulted in terror attacks of one sort or another. Several were aimed at subways, military bases, and shopping malls. To get a feel for the number of people that might be killed in typical terrorist attacks, consider that four subway bombs killed 52 people in London in 2005; the deadliest attack on a military base killed 13; and blowing up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, killed 187 people in 1995.

Making the huge assumption that all 23 plausible plots would have succeeded in killing an average of 100 Americans each, that means that 2,300 would have died in the last 10 years, or about 230 per year. (This implies a rate that is 10 times higher than the rate between 1970 and 2010, excluding the 9/11 attacks, by the way.) Even at this higher rate, your chances of dying in a terrorist attack would be about 1 in 1.7 million.

Ohio State University political scientist John Mueller and Mark Stewart, an engineering professor at University of Newcastle in Australia recently estimated that the U.S. has spent $1 trillion on anti-terrorism security measures since 2001 (this figure does not include the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). Assuming that 2,300 Americans might have been killed by terrorists inside the United States, this implies a cost of more that $400 million dollars per life saved.

In addition, the National Counterterrorism Center has been compiling worldwide deaths of private U.S. citizens due to terrorism since 2005. Terrorism is defined as “premeditated, politically motivated violence, perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.”

In 2010 (the latest report), 15 Americans were killed in terrorist attacks; nine died in 2009; 33 in 2008; 17 in 2007; 28 in 2006; and 56 in 2005. The vast majority of private U.S. citizens killed in terrorist attacks died in the war zone countries of Iraq and Afghanistan. So the sad tally of Americans killed by terrorists around the world since 2005 comes to a total of 158, yielding an annual rate 16 Americans killed by terrorists outside of the borders of the United States.


The total number of murders in Chicago last year exceeded the total number of Americans killed worldwide by the world's 1 billion Muslims since 2005 by 348.

Total terrorist attacks on every single individual on the planet resulted in a combined 8,969 deaths since 1970 and nearly 3,000 of those were on a single date, 9/11. 8969 deaths over a 43 year period from a religion that has 1,000,000,000 adherents.

By comparison, 14,153 people were murdered over the last 17 years (as far back as the records go) in Chicago.


So is death by terrorist attack the rule or exception?

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.

Last year, more church pastors sexually assualted children in the United States than total Americans killed in the entire world by 1/6th of the world's Population in the last 8 years. No matter how many individual articles are pulled together, the numbers will always say that Islam is a peaceful religion and that Islamic countries are safer to live in than non-Islamic countries.

Preachers always try to delude their sheeple. The numbers DO show that something is working better there than is working here.
A mass of apples and oranges comparisons. Inner city violence between blacks is a different ball game from a religious group trying to force their world view on the rest of us by violence.

Furthermore, Christians don't molest children. Religionists might. Real Christians do not.

Speaking of pedophiles, what do you think ol' Muhammad is up to right now?
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:59 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
The argument is that Islam is violent. If so, I would expect the violence to be statistically higher than, say, being struck by lightning.
The argument is "Islam is violent" not "Islam is more violent than X"
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:08 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
The argument is "Islam is violent" not "Islam is more violent than X"
Muslims are people. If Islam is violent then the people who follow Islam SHOULD be statistically more violent than other people right?
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:10 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Violent Islam

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
A mass of apples and oranges comparisons. Inner city violence between blacks is a different ball game from a religious group trying to force their world view on the rest of us by violence.

Furthermore, Christians don't molest children. Religionists might. Real Christians do not.

Speaking of pedophiles, what do you think ol' Muhammad is up to right now?
I am comparing groups of people LOL. The group who you say is "violent" can't meet a level of violence to match other groups.

I understand that you are afraid of Muslims and Islam. This demonstrates lack of faith on your own part only.

Statistically the chances of being randomly killed by a drone in a Muslim country are higher than the chances of being killed in a terrorist attack. Speaking of Islam and violence is pretty funny from that standpoint.
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