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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I may have missed it . . . why was TF thrown out of the library? What was he finding that upset or scared Hall and the others to toss him out?
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That's what you get to find out because it's not in Fudge's book.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
And why is this the first time I'm hearing about it???
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You were never interested in before?
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
If the facts aren't being disputed by Hall and Norris . . .
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Where did you find that information? Care to share?
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
what's the argument about? He's said to have a well-documented Bibliography, which could be said for any research book.
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How did I respond to that CR? I started this whole discussion by talking about attitude, and then about research. I also said when the FOOTNOTES (not Bibliography...yet) were brought up that one needs to check out those footnotes. Remember that I was speaking of examining the primary sources.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
Is it just that EB doesn't agree with the conclusions that he attacks the credibility and character of TF?
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Is that what I said CR? Or is that how you chose to precieve my posts?
Thank you for the invalidation.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
That's what I'm getting from EB's posts. No real substance other than he doesn't like the book.
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Well, there you have it folks the voice of discernment has spoken. Thank you sir, may I have another.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I haven't read the book yet, so I'm not going to defend the book, BUT
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The usage of the word BUT kinda negates your first statement and lets see how. Read carefully the below quote.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I will say that according to what I've read, TF received his information from a lot of different sources. It's not as though he interviewed one embittered, ex-UPC person and used their comments as the basis of his book.
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Agenda anyone? The magical conjuction allows you to see what's coming next. Thank you CR, for someone who has never read Fudge's book you sure know it's depth and construction.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I would agree that the book should be scrutinized; that the sources need be traced and not just accepted w/out question. In the same sense, I would hope EB places the same scrutiny on UPC-approved books and historical accounts written by UPC authors.
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CR did you only read what would strengthen an argument because my posts are repeating that proper research is to scrutinize the subject that we are studying.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
It goes both ways. However, I doubt EB places the same litmus test on UPC-authored and approved books as he does on other non-UPC-authored books.
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Thank you sir may I have another.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I still wonder why the UPC Library was closed to TF. Seems they didn't want the scrutiny of someone who wouldn't white-wash or gloss the history over to make it UPC-friendly.
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You see CR, the part about Elder Hall closing the door on Thomas Fudge is a fact, and that you can pick up Thomas Fudge's attitude is prevalent in his writings. You on the other hand are taking a speculative jab in which you have no proof.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
Dumb. No one's even hinted this.
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How about alluded to it.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
Every writer has an agenda. If not, why write a book? Seriously . . . what moron would write a book without thinking it through to the books conclusion. Without knowing what the purpose, or agenda, of the book was?
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You're correct CR, but some preach a Christ of Contention and the other of Love. Not all agendas are seeking a fair view. So that's why I ask for further research into the matter. Study out the material, come up with the balanced conclusion.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
Any books from other sources other than the Forward, the Pentecostal Herald and PPH? I think most would agree that these sources would be decidedly biased in their opinions and views and would not be a good source of critical reasoning or examinations into the history of the UPC. I guarantee you most of what's put out by HQ is done so with a positive spin, if nothing more than to "keep unity."
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UPCI and Thomas Fudge are not the only ones who have ever written books on Pentecostalism.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
Unfortunately I've wasted about 30 minutes going over all the posts I've missed since last night .
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Well, then I hope that taught you a lesson, now I guess you will be taking a month long hiatus?
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
. . and I'll say again -
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Why?
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
No one is suggesting that TF's book is total truth or infallible;
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Although they have alluded to it.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
No one is even suggesting TF is right in his conclusions (re-read the posts - can't find it);
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Although that has been alluded to.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
EB continues to question and belittle TF's character and writings - with no substantive reason other than he doesn't like TF's conclusions
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I brought up Leo Tolstoy and how by learning about the writer I was able to get more understanding of his work.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
EB seems to take what's written by UPC-friendly authors without the "white-hot light of scrutiny" he demands for non-UPC-friendly authors.
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So I guess someone can read for 30 minutes and come up with the wrong information? What you said is not true. Thank you for proving my point.
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve
I'll be getting both books: "Christianity without the Cross," and "United We Stand," to look a little more into this.
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Lord bless you and good reading.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com