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  #31  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:48 AM
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diakonos diakonos is offline
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Like I said, they love people. They help them financially, pray for them, with them, encourage them to be involved in and regularly attend church, but correcting them in center areas of their life, they don't do.
Really? Do they allow fornicators, drunks, liars, gays to be members of the church?
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  #32  
Old 08-20-2019, 02:45 PM
derAlte derAlte is offline
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Originally Posted by Holy Roller View Post
Thanks.

Like I said, they love people. They help them financially, pray for them, with them, encourage them to be involved in and regularly attend church, but correcting them in center areas of their life, they don't do. There's almost no outward attire standard; makeup, jewelry, women wearing pants, cut hair, pierced ears, cloud the congregation, and has found its way into the pulpit. The pastors themselves have backslidden in their appearance.

This confused me. The Spirit still moves in their services, so how could their decision to "let go of tradition" (as they seem to call it) necessarily be bad? I finally came back to realization that the Lord was simply having mercy on them, hoping they'd come back to Him solely.
That is wonderful that they love people and genuinely try to minister to them. But they are not doing anyone any favors by abandoning Biblical lifestyle paths. You are so right that God is merciful and lovingly moves on wayward folks of all stripes. I've seen Him do it among ultra-ultra-conservatives all the way to loosy-goosy, greasy-grace liberals. Return, return, return, return, He says. The goodness of God still is what turns men to repentance. I can testify to that personally.
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  #33  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:15 AM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Really? Do they allow fornicators, drunks, liars, gays to be members of the church?
How can I say this? Well, once such restrictions and teachings on conservative attire dwindles, or goes away almost entirely, other things naturally become relaxed, too.

They don't have a membership board. It's a come and you're one of us type deal going on there, but I get what you mean. As far as holding positions in their church, they are semi-solid in their expectations for these people, but I've seen them use people I'd never personally feel like God would like for them to.

After spending more time with them, I learned that, since they're a family church, some stuff is conveniently swept under the rug because Susie Q is Aunt Anna Mae's daughter.

Stuff like that.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:18 AM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Originally Posted by derAlte View Post
That is wonderful that they love people and genuinely try to minister to them. But they are not doing anyone any favors by abandoning Biblical lifestyle paths. You are so right that God is merciful and lovingly moves on wayward folks of all stripes. I've seen Him do it among ultra-ultra-conservatives all the way to loosy-goosy, greasy-grace liberals. Return, return, return, return, He says. The goodness of God still is what turns men to repentance. I can testify to that personally.
My home church once enjoyed a healthy fellowship with this church, many years ago when its founding Mother was still at the helm. She was a jewel, or so I've been told, but she had gone on to be with the Lord long before I ever visited with my Mother.

She had, like many pastors I know, let the standard slide for her children, especially her three daughters, who likewise let the standard slide even further for their children. The grandchildren to this church's founding Mother have almost no relationship with God. Almost none of them attend church regularly, and even those that do, you would think they just walked out of the First Baptist church judging solely by their attire, attitude, and extra-circular activities outside church.

It's sinking. And fast.

But on a personal note, I can testify that I also know Jesus wants us all the come back to repentance after we've went astray. As I said, I spent a lot of time with the above mentioned group of people, and I found myself trying to convince my mind of things I knew God had told me was wrong. I remember coming to a crossroads: either I was going to continue backing up, grow distasteful of "church" and backslide entirely to the world, or I'd go back to what my home church had fed me and what God had already instilled in me.

I went back to my home church. I don't regret it. Not in the slightest.
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Last edited by Holy Roller; 08-21-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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  #35  
Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

Legalism, when tangled with theology, is defined as a dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.

This is precisely accurate. When I think of legalistic Christians, I think of a person who probably depends solely on things they see as rules, whether it be outward holiness, sustaining from the mingling with the world, or possessing a holier than thou façade.

I know some Apostolic people that are legalistic. They believe holiness, per masculine view, is "long sleeves and pants". I recall asking this guy if it ever started inward, and he said he felt it was more important for someone to dress right. It didn't surprise me though, because his church hasn't any idea about how to love people into the Truth. They have that "you're here, fall in line" mentality.
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  #36  
Old Yesterday, 03:46 PM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Originally Posted by Holy Roller View Post
Legalism, when tangled with theology, is defined as a dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.

This is precisely accurate. When I think of legalistic Christians, I think of a person who probably depends solely on things they see as rules, whether it be outward holiness, sustaining from the mingling with the world, or possessing a holier than thou façade.

I know some Apostolic people that are legalistic. They believe holiness, per masculine view, is "long sleeves and pants". I recall asking this guy if it ever started inward, and he said he felt it was more important for someone to dress right. It didn't surprise me though, because his church hasn't any idea about how to love people into the Truth. They have that "you're here, fall in line" mentality.
This actually is NOT "precisely accurate". What if one's personal religious faith requires a "dependance on moral law"? The definition you posted is like saying "depending on regular maintenance rather than on one's relationship with the local auto shop." How is there even a contrast? Regular maintenance might very well be a substantial part of doing business with the local auto shop, and vice versa.

In reality, legalism is "anything that says I ought to do something I don't want to do." THAT'S how the term is actually used, and usage determines meaning.
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  #37  
Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book


In christianity, can you have true religious faith without moral law?


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  #38  
Old Today, 04:26 AM
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Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post

In christianity, can you have true religious faith without moral law?


No. All religion has moral law of some kind. Even the most antinomian liberalised heresies have SOME kind of moral law they demand obedience to.
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