Should the Message of Hell be preached in Churches

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Define destruction.
Was Sodom destroyed?

(Rev. 20:10, 15 makes things very clear)

God's love was shown by the ultimate sacrifice at Calvary to make it POSSIBLE for any to be saved, but God has given mankind a free will to choose, and those who reject God are making their choice and will suffer the consequences of their choice.

IF everyone was going to end up being saved reguardless of their choice to not obey the truth, then why would there even be any need to preach the gospel ? (but we know everyone is not going to be saved reguardless)

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

(ignorance will not be a valid excuse, see Romans 1:20)

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is VERY serious business folks, PLEASE do not give people a false hope that they will end up being saved reguardless of their choices, they must obey the gospel and endure faithful to the end !

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by BroGary

(Rev. 20:10, 15 makes things very clear)

God's love was shown by the ultimate sacrifice at Calvary to make it POSSIBLE for any to be saved, but God has given mankind a free will to choose, and those who reject God are making their choice and will suffer the consequences of their choice.

IF everyone was going to end up being saved reguardless of their choice to not obey the truth, then why would there even be any need to preach the gospel ? (but we know everyone is not going to be saved reguardless)

This is VERY serious business folks, PLEASE do not give people a false hope that they will end up being saved reguardless of their choices, they must obey the gospel and endure faithful to the end !

Come on, Gary, define the point. Your broad brush leaves way to many doors open.

Who is lost, and who is saved? If the Gospel is so easy to understand, why are there over 30,000 Christian Denominations in the World claiming a take on Salvation, and, which one is right?

I asked in you in another post; was the Prodigal Son ever lost? If you say yes, at what point? Then, at what point was he saved again? If we can't define the point, Hell is guess work and we can't afford to guess on such a tragic end to Humanity.

If Jesus could forgive the Adulterous Woman in this life, what makes us think he can't forgive her in the next life?

Did you even look at the link I attached? The link proves, Eternal Damnation is Theological mistake. Here is a short excerpt from the link;

Another pleasant change which more Bible translations of the future will make deals with the subject of the words "everlasting," "eternal," and "for ever and ever." These words have been used in times past to translate the Hebrew word "olam," and its Greek counterpart "aion," and its adjective, "aionios." These ancient words should NEVER have been translated this way. Many modern scholars are beginning to cut against the grain of tradition and speak the truth which has been shackled by the chains of tradition long enough. It's time for light. The body of Christ has had enough of living in the shadows. It's time for pure light!

Dr. G. Campbell Morgan, a well-known Bible teacher, hailed as "the prince of expositors" wrote in his book "God's Method's With Men" on pages 185, 6, "Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how to use the word 'eternity.' We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is NO word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our 'eternal,' which as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end."

The above statement may come as a shock to the traditional Christian in the typical Church. It was certainly a shock to me. How could he make what appeared to me such a ridiculous statement. The Bible translations I had were FILLED with verses that spoke of things which were "eternal," "everlasting," and went on "forever and ever." How could he be hailed as a renowned Bible teacher and be given the honor of being called by the evangelical world the "prince of expositors" and yet make what appeared to me based upon my few Bible translations an utterly ridiculous statement? But when I decided to dig through my walls of tradition to see if what the famous Doctor Morgan said was true, I found MANY other well-known and respected scholars and Bible teachers had come to the very same conclusions to which Dr. Morgan had come.

We must, and may I reiterate MUST, love the Truth regardless if our Traditional view of Scripture is at risk. It doesn't matter which Church we attend, if error is found, then corrections must be made. This is probably the greatest form of bondage known to any Faith; Tradition.

[NotforSale]

Here's the link;

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Come on, Gary, define the point. Your broad brush leaves way to many doors open.

Who is lost, and who is saved? If the Gospel is so easy to understand, why are there over 30,000 Christian Denominations in the World claiming a take on Salvation, and, which one is right?

I asked in you in another post; was the Prodigal Son ever lost? If you say yes, at what point? Then, at what point was he saved again? If we can't define the point, Hell is guess work and we can't afford to guess on such a tragic end to Humanity.

If Jesus could forgive the Adulterous Woman in this life, what makes us think he can't forgive her in the next life?

Did you even look at the link I attached? The link proves, Eternal Damnation is Theological mistake. Here is a short excerpt from the link;

Another pleasant change which more Bible translations of the future will make deals with the subject of the words "everlasting," "eternal," and "for ever and ever." These words have been used in times past to translate the Hebrew word "olam," and its Greek counterpart "aion," and its adjective, "aionios." These ancient words should NEVER have been translated this way. Many modern scholars are beginning to cut against the grain of tradition and speak the truth which has been shackled by the chains of tradition long enough. It's time for light. The body of Christ has had enough of living in the shadows. It's time for pure light!

Dr. G. Campbell Morgan, a well-known Bible teacher, hailed as "the prince of expositors" wrote in his book "God's Method's With Men" on pages 185, 6, "Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how to use the word 'eternity.' We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is NO word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our 'eternal,' which as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end."

The above statement may come as a shock to the traditional Christian in the typical Church. It was certainly a shock to me. How could he make what appeared to me such a ridiculous statement. The Bible translations I had were FILLED with verses that spoke of things which were "eternal," "everlasting," and went on "forever and ever." How could he be hailed as a renowned Bible teacher and be given the honor of being called by the evangelical world the "prince of expositors" and yet make what appeared to me based upon my few Bible translations an utterly ridiculous statement? But when I decided to dig through my walls of tradition to see if what the famous Doctor Morgan said was true, I found MANY other well-known and respected scholars and Bible teachers had come to the very same conclusions to which Dr. Morgan had come.

We must, and may I reiterate MUST, love the Truth regardless if our Traditional view of Scripture is at risk. It doesn't matter which Church we attend, if error is found, then corrections must be made. This is probably the greatest form of bondage known to any Faith; Tradition.

Nothing personal, but I disagree with the belief that "everyone will be saved reguardless of their choices".

From the day of Pentecost onward people are required to obey the gospel, the apostle Peter preached on the day of Pentecost how to obey the gospel.

There are way too many scriptures you would have to ignore to not believe that everyone will not be saved and that punishment for the lost is eternal, and that there are no second chances after this life.

I read online that G. Campbell Morgan described the Azusa Street activities as "the last vomit of Satan." in an anti-pentecostal book written by Michael L. Brown, so it doesn't surprise me that he would hold to such false doctrine.

It seems that such false doctrines as "everyone will be saved" can be tied to such ecumenical false groups as the "Emergent Movement" and people like Rick Warren -

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=8488

http://apprising.org/2008/09/21/ever...llyarent-they/

The above links are not apostolic, but they at least show the falseness of the "no eternal punishment" and "everyone will be saved" heresies.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Nothing personal, but I disagree with the belief that "everyone will be saved reguardless of their choices".

From the day of Pentecost onward people are required to obey the gospel, the apostle Peter preached on the day of Pentecost how to obey the gospel.

There are way too many scriptures you would have to ignore to not believe that everyone will not be saved and that punishment for the lost is eternal, and that there are no second chances after this life.

I read online that G. Campbell Morgan described the Azusa Street activities as "the last vomit of Satan." in an anti-pentecostal book written by Michael L. Brown, so it doesn't surprise me that he would hold to such false doctrine.

It seems that such false doctrines as "everyone will be saved" can be tied to such ecumenical false groups as the "Emergent Movement" and people like Rick Warren -

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=8488

http://apprising.org/2008/09/21/ever...llyarent-they/

The above links are not apostolic, but they at least show the falseness of the "no eternal punishment" and "everyone will be saved" heresies.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

You did not refute Mr. Campbell's approach on the subject with facts, just a personal problem he had with a specific ideal that you seem to agree with. The Apostolic Church is full of "Nut Cases" who've made the exact same kind of statements Mr. Campbell said (If he said it. I did not research your claim). Preachers in Pentecost have railed the World of Religion with prideful and arrogant statements that are poisoned with the idea that “We Have the TRUTH!” and everyone else is lost.

Then, after accusing me of using Mr. Campbell's statement, you refer me to Non Apostolic links that reek with the Trinity, watered down Salvation, and Holiness differences that I'm sure are worlds apart from what you believe. In fact, I copied a piece from the link you used, and here is what they believe;

In the one true and living God; affirming the Holy Trinity — within the nature of the one God, there exists three Co-equal and Co-eternal Persons. God the Father; God the Son-Jesus of Nazareth, Who is the Christ; and God the Holy Spirit.

Again, you avoid the facts with your idea, and, you avoid the countless Scriptures that defend my view and opinion on Eternal Damnation. Debating with you is a waste of time if you continue down this path. I've asked you numerous point, blank questions, and you won't answer them because you know they will corner you as the judge of something you can’t prove.

You also put words in my mouth. I never said "Everyone" will be saved. I'm debating the facts of "Eternal Damnation" or “Eternal Fire”.

[Shawn]

I noticed ya didn't answer the question, Gary, my friend.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

You did not refute Mr. Campbell's approach on the subject with facts, just a personal problem he had with a specific ideal that you seem to agree with. The Apostolic Church is full of "Nut Cases" who've made the exact same kind of statements Mr. Campbell said (If he said it. I did not research your claim). Preachers in Pentecost have railed the World of Religion with prideful and arrogant statements that are poisoned with the idea that “We Have the TRUTH!” and everyone else is lost.

Then, after accusing me of using Mr. Campbell's statement, you refer me to Non Apostolic links that reek with the Trinity, watered down Salvation, and Holiness differences that I'm sure are worlds apart from what you believe. In fact, I copied a piece from the link you used, and here is what they believe;

In the one true and living God; affirming the Holy Trinity — within the nature of the one God, there exists three Co-equal and Co-eternal Persons. God the Father; God the Son-Jesus of Nazareth, Who is the Christ; and God the Holy Spirit.

Again, you avoid the facts with your idea, and, you avoid the countless Scriptures that defend my view and opinion on Eternal Damnation. Debating with you is a waste of time if you continue down this path. I've asked you numerous point, blank questions, and you won't answer them because you know they will corner you as the judge of something you can’t prove.

You also put words in my mouth. I never said "Everyone" will be saved. I'm debating the facts of "Eternal Damnation" or “Eternal Fire”.

I made it clear that they were not apostolic links so their other beliefs are a non-issue in relation to this discussion.

Well, if you believe that punishment for the lost is not eternal, isn't that basically saying that everyone will eventually be saved ?

You asked who would be saved if I remember right, and I showed that the scripture shows it is those who obey the gospel. (and the apostle Peter preached on the day of Pentecost how to obey the gospel)

Easy believism will not save anyone -

http://www.upcbaypoint.com/Articles/...believism.html

Again, you would have to ignore a lot of verses to actually think that the punishment of the lost is not eternal.

(and if you don't have faith to believe that God is powerful enough to make sure His Word would be preserved as He wanted it to be, then you have no real foundation to base any belief on)

quoted from the apostolic link below:

"Without the hope of spending eternity in the presence of God or the threat of being punished with eternal separation and condemnation, there is little reason to consider the need for salvation. Jesus taught the doctrines of Heaven and Hell more than any other Bible voice. If Jesus Christ is to be believed, then so are the doctrines of Heaven and Hell."

http://kenraggio.com/KR-MansNeedForSalvation.htm

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Esther

Jesus taught more on hell than heaven. Why? Because He wants to do all He can to get you to not go there.

This society has more evil in games, movies, etc and now I hear we "fear" talking about hell. Right! Who fears that?

Should our relationship with God be built on fear? NO!

God is love!

But you are doing a disservice to the people if you don't teach about Heaven and Hell. There are two destination for eternity, would be good to know about both.

Sorry Esther, it is just not true. Jesue did not speak of hell more than Heaven, it is however a much believed myth that He did.

[Falla39]

Hey, Crakjak,

Not to hijack this thread, but are you back from your Alaskan Second Honeymoon cruise! If so, why not start a new thread and tell us about
it!

Falla39

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Hey, Crakjak,

Not to hijack this thread, but are you back from your Alaskan Second Honeymoon cruise! If so, why not start a new thread and tell us about
it!

Falla39

Yeah, we returned late last night, it will take a few days to get pictures and info together to share.