Glorified Flesh? - Page 3

mfblume · #21 11-02-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Sorry for not commenting on this subject, but I had a man ask me that question, his particular religion believes in a Glorified body of Jesus in heaven. Of course they believe in all physical and no spiritual as well. They believe when they die they will see a 5’6” Jewish man up there sitting on a throne on the right hand of God. I can’t believe how anyone could believe in glorified flesh, when flesh is symbolic of sin, the carnal nature of man. I mean whoever heard of Glorified Sin, the doctrines some people come up with....

Flesh is not synonymous with sin. It only is used that way since the fall, but when Adam was created with flesh before he sinned, his flesh was not bad, it was as much "very good" as everything else that God created.

And especially when we're speaking about the Flesh of Jesus Christ, who had no sin. It's not glorified sin. Wherever you got the idea that flesh is symbolic of sin before Adam sinned or not, including the flesh of Jesus, is a mystery to me.

I don't know what the state of his body is now that he's in heaven on the throne. But I do know that whatever it is, with all the capabilities it has that we might not be aware of, we're physically going to see him in the second coming.

I have a statement to make. For all those who believe Jesus Christ isn't retaining a physical Immortal body, then you've obviously chopped off entire point of God giving Adam Dominion on the earth, and wanting that to continue with the new Adam Jesus Christ, after sin has been dealt with by the cross. You don't really have a connection to the original purpose of God putting Adam in the earth, if you don't believe Jesus Christ, the last Adam, has a physical immortal body.

Adam would have had an immortal sinful body if he hadn't been driven from the garden to not be able to eat the fruit of life and live forever. If that wasn't the case, then can somebody please give me a scenario that would have been the case.

mfblume · #22 11-02-2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

TJ? Is that you?

T triple J deenomeetay!

mfblume · #23 11-02-2019, 09:53 AM

TJ,

You make these statements and then dodge away without allowing yourself to be challenged. Come on, man. Step up.

Nicodemus1968 · #24 11-02-2019, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Flesh is not synonymous with sin. It only is used that way since the fall, but when Adam was created with flesh before he sinned, his flesh was not bad, it was as much "very good" as everything else that God created.

And especially when we're speaking about the Flesh of Jesus Christ, who had no sin. It's not glorified sin. Wherever you got the idea that flesh is symbolic of sin before Adam sinned or not, including the flesh of Jesus, is a mystery to me.

I don't know what the state of his body is now that he's in heaven on the throne. But I do know that whatever it is, with all the capabilities it has that we might not be aware of, we're physically going to see him in the second coming.

I have a statement to make. For all those who believe Jesus Christ isn't retaining a physical Immortal body, then you've obviously chopped off entire point of God giving Adam Dominion on the earth, and wanting that to continue with the new Adam Jesus Christ, after sin has been dealt with by the cross. You don't really have a connection to the original purpose of God putting Adam in the earth, if you don't believe Jesus Christ, the last Adam, has a physical immortal body.

Adam would have had an immortal sinful body if he hadn't been driven from the garden to not be able to eat the fruit of life and live forever. If that wasn't the case, then can somebody please give me a scenario that would have been the case.

Mr. Blume,
The Bible says God is a spirit, and another portion of scripture says, spirit has no flesh and bones. The very purpose of GOD coming into the flesh was the purpose of dying on the cross. Paul said the blood of bulls and goats cannot save us, so in order to have a New Testament there must be the death of the testator. Now unless, you believe in 2 Gods, God the Father (Spirit) and then the Son Jesus Christ in human form, I guess that can work. Listen, I’m not saying anything you don’t know, I’m just having a hard time believing, the body of Jesus will be in heaven as he was on earth??? The seed that goes into the ground doesn’t look like it went into the ground. Heavenly bodies yes, that’s scripture, flesh, no sir I don’t read that.
On a side note, if he comes back in the future then that would be his 3rd coming, wouldn’t it? He came in the form of the comforter, (book of Acts 2) he came in 70AD in judgement against Israel, and I guess to America or Israel or wherever will be the third coming.....

TJJJ · #25 11-02-2019, 10:06 AM

Oh my, this is turning out to be a funny thread!

Deakon, E, do you really think that is me?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

TJJJ · #26 11-02-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why did He resurrect at all, then? In fact, why did he show them his hands and feet and then proceed to eat honeycomb to prove he physically resurrected? Why waste the time and effort?

Let me answer this paragraph first Mike.

His physical life was to show the spiritual dimension!

Why did He die? to show the need for repentence!

Why was He buried? to show the need for baptism!

Why did He resurrect? To show the need for NEW LIFE!

This really isn't that hard Mike, we don't need a college thesis on this matter!

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

TJJJ · #27 11-02-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you Nostradamus1968?

Nope

Nicodemus1968 · #28 11-02-2019, 10:13 AM

I mean, why would TJJJ, also come on as Nicodemus? Doesn’t make sense.

mfblume · #29 11-02-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Mr. Blume,
The Bible says God is a spirit, and another portion of scripture says, spirit has no flesh and bones. The very purpose of GOD coming into the flesh was the purpose of dying on the cross.

More than that. Let's get the entire gospel correct here.

He came to redeem us to the pre-fallen state of Adam where Adam was given dominion on earth for a man to rule the earth as God rules heaven.

He died in order to rise again and make atonement in the holiest of holies called Heaven.

First of all, GOD is not high priest. Man acts as high priest. And Jesus had to enter heaven as a man in order to make atonement as high priest So, your off on that point alone.

Hebrews 9:11 KJV.. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 KJV.. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Quote:

Paul said the blood of bulls and goats cannot save us, so in order to have a New Testament there must be the death of the testator. Now unless, you believe in 2 Gods, God the Father (Spirit) and then the Son Jesus Christ in human form, I guess that can work. Listen, I’m not saying anything you don’t know, I’m just having a hard time believing, the body of Jesus will be in heaven as he was on earth???

I never said the body will be in heaven as it was on earth. I am saying that the body is retained, but in what way it is in heaven, I do not know. I only know this, that he retains that body and we shall see it in the second coming. It had capabilities that were supernatural, which is what SPIRITUAL literally means. It ascended into the sky. It appeared at place at his will, out of thin air. What else can it do that we are not told about? But the overall more important point is that A MAN HAS TO RULE OVER EARTH as the LAST ADAM. And His humanity is still in existence in heaven.

I quoted verses that say the MAN sat down on the throne in heaven, NOT DEITY.

There is ONE GOD, and that OE GOD manifested in flesh that became spiritual and immortal, while still very physical. ANd we shall see it again in the second coming. The second COMING WAS NOT the day of Pentecost because after that happened Paul stated that he looked forward to the then-future coming of Jesus when our flesh shall be changed into immortal flesh.

God is still manifest in that human body, but the body is not God. And the body is now immortal flesh that is not natural any more, but spiritual.

Quote:

The seed that goes into the ground doesn’t look like it went into the ground. Heavenly bodies yes, that’s scripture, flesh, no sir I don’t read that.

The body changed in the resurrection. That does not mean it is no longer physical.

What you fail to read is this all-important verse:

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 KJV.. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ..(36).. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

The thing that rises is the thing that died. Resurrection does not happen unless what is made alive already died first. What died, Nic? That will tell you what is raised.

And that was the case with Jesus and it is the case at our future resurrection.

Quote:

On a side note, if he comes back in the future then that would be his 3rd coming, wouldn’t it? He came in the form of the comforter, (book of Acts 2) he came in 70AD in judgement against Israel, and I guess to America or Israel or wherever will be the third coming.....

No, because, like I said, the second coming was not the Day of Pentecost. Paul spoke of a future coming LONG AFTER the day of Pentecost in 1 Cor 15.

And the MAN did not come on the day of Pentecost, anyway. There is a distinction between his humanity and his deity NOW just as much as there was back before the ascension and after Bethlehem's birth. The Holy Ghost is not the SON OF MAN. They're the same person, but not the same manifestation of the one God.

I explained all of this before.

How can the future coming of Jesus in 1 Cor 15 be a third coming OF THE SON OF MAN, if the Holy Ghost IS NOT A MAN?

TJJJ · #30 11-02-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I did not think you could respond biblically with scripture to the scriptural reasoning I provided. And I am expecting you unable to also respond biblically to my previous use of scripture with your own use of it, without just saying NOT.

Mike, this is not a new discussion with us, you adhere to the belief of the physical body of Christ, floating around in heaven by the right hand of God the Father Jesus, (Just like the dispees do...)

I don't. Period.

We have been here before you and I, nothing new.

I have argued this with the Mormons and JW's for long enough to see the same doctrinal position with them also.

The reason that you need a physical body in heaven, waiting for the last toot de toot, is that you are also, like the dispees, expecting your own physical body to go to heaven.