Churches to lose "BILLIONS"

[2020Vision]

With the slacking economy, the Prosperity Monsters will be more silent (though that didn't stop them from preaching that mess to dirt poor converts in Africa!), and large-scale, heavily-funded church projects will be fewer. A new Barna Survey says that churches will lose "billions" due to the economy.

Building programs, conferences, crusades and church staff positions will be among the many areas affected.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?P...naUpdateID=322

[A_PoMo]

Our church has leveled out in terms of drop in income. We started dropping when the economic slowdown first started happening in the summer of '07. We were projected to be down over $300,000 for this year but now looks like we'll be down about $150,000. We've cut expenses to the bare bone and are not replacing staff. That's a $300,000 shortfall for the last two years. And we're just one of 65 churches in our town. Some of the bigger ones are on the brink of losing their buildings because they cannot make the payments. It doesn't help that our local power utility doubled the electric rates last summer.

[bkstokes]

If churches would get out of the mega building mentality and do their services in homes, the money that was given could go to the two reasons that were listed in the NT (support preachers and help the needy saints).

[Cindy]

I wonder if the government will bail them out?

Would give a whole new meaning to the words "Money cometh".

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

If churches would get out of the mega building mentality and do their services in homes, the money that was given could go to the two reasons that were listed in the NT (support preachers and help the needy saints).

BK that's interesting. Acts had house churches largely because of convenience (persecution, etc). Considering the freedom we have today in our democratic society, do you have a theological opinion of this or just one of practicality (you think it's the better way to go)?

There are many perks for a large church, as well as draw backs. There are also many perks of the small church, with just as many draw backs. Do you agree?

[A_PoMo]

The church didn't have persecution for several decades after it was birthed, yet met in homes primarily and Solomon's Porch for awhile until the Jews got mad and disfellowshipped them. They met in homes by choice, in small groups. The went even more underground and secretive once persecution started.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

The church didn't have persecution for several decades after it was birthed, yet met in homes primarily and Solomon's Porch for awhile until the Jews got mad and disfellowshipped them. They met in homes by choice, in small groups. The went even more underground and secretive once persecution started.

The Book of Acts records persecution. Paul himself was involved in this persecution, coming from the Jews at this point, and not Roman authority. Also, my point, PoMo, is that the world in the First Century church was different than today. Democracy didn't exist. Financial blessing, as we have it now, was non-existent. One could not build a huge ampitheater at that time because of 1) money, and 2) the world had fabled ideas about who the Christians were. Cesar Augusta and Nero's historical records show this.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

BK that's interesting. Acts had house churches largely because of convenience (persecution, etc). Considering the freedom we have today in our democratic society, do you have a theological opinion of this or just one of practicality (you think it's the better way to go)?

There are many perks for a large church, as well as draw backs. There are also many perks of the small church, with just as many draw backs. Do you agree?

I attend a church building (the church has about 150) and I have attended a church of 2,000, so I obviosly don't think that it is necessarily wrong.

I formed my opinion after studying the use of money in the NT. I noticed that they always collected offerings for two reasons. They also shared a mentality of not trying to build up a life here, but building for the eternal.

After realizing this, I came to the conclusion that so much of the money that is given to churches, goes towards things that are not found in the NT. How many widows or orphans that have many needs go to churches that have big buildings?

I go to a church building now because I have 5 young kids (5,4,3,2, and 1). I want them to get Sunday School training and they limit my ability to have home fellowship meetings.

However, when they are older, if the Lord wills, I plan to start a church in my home. If it takes off and gets larger I will train other leaders to start churches in their homes and break up the original group.

I recognize that there are advantages with both ways. I just feel the home system is a way to be a better steward of the offerings of the saints.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

I attend a church building (the church has about 150) and I have attended a church of 2,000, so I obviosly don't think that is it necessarily wrong.

I formed my opinion after studying the use of money in the NT. I noticed that they always collected offerings for two reasons. They also shared a mentality of not trying to build up a life here, but building for the eternal.

After realizing this, I came to the conclusion that so much of the money that is given to churches, goes towards things that are not found in the NT. How many widows or orphans that have many needs go to churches that have big buildings?

I go to a church building now because I have 5 young kids (5,4,3,2, and 1). I want them to get Sunday School training and they limit my ability to have home fellowship meetings.

However, when they are older, if the Lord wills, I plan to start a church in my home. If it takes off and gets larger I will train other leaders to start churches in their homes and break up the original group.

I recognize that there are advantages with both ways. I just feel the home system is a way to be a better steward of the offerings of the saints.

I can respect that. Seems to be defining the role of the pastor would be important in this too. I know many home church fans at my office, and most of them have little conviction with the role of a pastor. I like the idea. Larger churches like it too (that's why they form small groups - Lakewood for example).

I've heard good debate on the part about the primary mission of the church with regards to financially caring for orphans, widows, etc... Most of those arguments dealt with a compare/contrast the 1st Century to 21st Century.

Thanks for the comments.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

The Book of Acts records persecution. Paul himself was involved in this persecution, coming from the Jews at this point, and not Roman authority. Also, my point, PoMo, is that the world in the First Century church was different than today. Democracy didn't exist. Financial blessing, as we have it now, was non-existent. One could not build a huge ampitheater at that time because of 1) money, and 2) the world had fabled ideas about who the Christians were. Cesar Augusta and Nero's historical records show this.

There was some minor persecution from Jews, but nothing systemic and empire wide for awhile. The local stuff isn't relevant in comparison to what came later when the Romans got upset. But, the church flourished the most under persecution.

True, the general public had pretty strange perceptions of the church; they thought they were anti-community, cannibals, a secret society, and other things. They sure did do things differently than we do today in the Western world. They seemed much more underground and less 'evangelistic' as we understand it. I think they let their actions speak louder than their words. There is some evidence now that they did have buildings dedicated to worship fairly early, but they weren't as prevalent then as now. And houses that were remodeled into large group gathering halls have been found there. But it was mainly small groups. Nothing like we have now that's for sure. Are we as apostolic as a Restorationist would like? haha.