Gino Jennings End Times

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by n david

You're on your own, woman!

There have been a number of times in which I have draped my suit jacket over the shoulders of my wife or daughter because they were cold.

IMO he's being a little too literal.

Ok, but he really believes it. You don’t...

[peter83]

Originally Posted by n david

The UPC doesn't believe in 2nd marriage. They believe it's okay (in certain instances) to be remarried. Your phrasing implies they believe in polygamy.


I saw a youtube video where one of his readers read a letter from a person attending a UPC church who also watched Gino. The person said their UPC Pastor said Gino was too harsh. To which Gino responded that the person should leave their "false prophet" and UPC church. Then his other reader read the scripture "Come out from among them and be separate." For a man who 1) has by-laws against proselyting and causing division; 2) talks a lot of context and understanding what a scripture is saying before using it -- he's incredibly ignorant telling the person to leave their church and even more ignorant trying to apply that scripture to the UPC.


From the by-laws it appears everything must be approved by Gino before it can be read, quoted, referenced, etc by one of his ministers. That's just a tad ridiculous.

There's more in the by-laws which show he demands a lot of control over people who either want to be a minister or want to be a member of his church.

I would run from Gino and that church.

Ηe also said that old time Apostolic were strict too but now little by little getting colder
1)i did not said about Polygamy, i said that 2nd marriage is not permitted for any reason ,so it is a false teaching
2)women preachers are not ordaining by God ,so that one is false too
3)Many people are more loyal to their Religion (Apostolic, Pentecostal etc.) than to God! this is what Gino preach about , He did not just say "come out" He said that if the preacher does not willing to change then come out
That is the problem with Organisations . If one willing to do roght he have to loose his Job! This means he is not free to do the will of God because the Organisation will fire him out.
It is more than just women preachers,head coverings and divorces! He mostly preach against getting paid of a Religion and then control what you teach!
4) No reason to read any book of any person while we have the Word of God
is this right? Sure!
5)You could run were you want, most people are running out of faith , if you are like Jonah ,God will bring you in place

With all that i dont want to defend Gino or any man, or any Religion etc.
I just want to tell you that your reasons of neglecting the Message of Holiness are not so important as the message itself , running away because of strictness and difficulties it is not what we are told to do (because narrow is the way!) .

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

Sorry what exactly you believe about the First Resurrection?

It's salvation.

John 5 shows Jesus talking about two resurrections. The first is salvation when we hear his voice and come alive into newness of life, as in Romans 6:13 where we are said to be alive from the dead once we're saved, and must pray with that perspective in mind. The second is from the graves and is physical.

Matt 24:30-31 is (probably) the Gathering we see at Revelation 14

I disagree.

The gathering is protection from destruction and wrath -- see the same terms used in reference to Jerusalem at the end of Matt 23, whom HE WOULD have gathered together from trouble, but they refused.

Revelation is not a series of movies of the future. It is symbolic of what would happen after John wrote it, and the symbols are old testament stories that actually occurred literally, but are used as symbols of what would happen in John's future. John was in the same tribulation he wrote about in Revelation. He wrote the book to the early church as his brethren in tribulation. When Jesus spoke to Jerusalem about gathering them together, he said those events would happen in "this generation", which would be the generation he preached to. And the same set of words speaking about gathering together and "this generation" are found in Matt 24 speaking about the church who would be gathered INSTEAD of Jerusalem, "from the four winds". The four winds are the four horsemen that we see called the four spirits/winds in Zechariah 6. Jesus listed the six seals of Revelation 6 in Matth 24. And the first four are the four horsemen of false Christs, wars, famines and death. Tie that with Zech 6 and Rev 6 and see that the four winds he'd gather them from were the four horsemen.

and also the same event as described by Paul in Thessalonians 1 (1)Coming from Heaven to earth, 2) with a voice from Archangel, 3) In the Clouds, 4)trump of God 5)In the last Trump.

Many trumpet sounds represent different things. Trumpet signaled varying events, like call to war, regathering etc. So, just because we read a trumpet does not mean Resurrection. Read about the seven trumpets in Revelation!

Matt 24 spoke of the first century when NO RESURRECTION would occur.

Jesus was asked about THE SIGN when "these things" would come to pass and the end of the WORLD/AGE would occur, not end of the planet. When they asked about THESE THINGS and the SIGN OF THY COMING, the SIGN was repeated in Mark's and Luke's gospels as the SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS shall come to pass. THESE THINGS refers tot he temple destruction. A COMING of Jesus occurred when the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. He referred to the temple destruction as a COMING of Himself in Matt 21:40 in speaking of the parable of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen. Not all comings are the rapture. That's the SECOND COMING not to be confused with the COMING in local destruction in the first century.

In Luke is described too very wonderfully (and fearfully )
Luke 17 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.3 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

That was a coming of destruction ONLY, not for resurrection or rapture. THE SIGN mentioned in Luke 21, Mark 13 and Matt 24 was the sign of the temple destruction. No word of resurrection is plainly mentioned anywhere in those three chapters. People assume it is resurrection, but the resurreciton f 1 Cor 15 is not at all hinted at plainly in those chapters. Tradition has skewed the reference to the temple destruction in Jerusalem to be the resurrection.

Also this last word " thither will the eagles be gathered together." by Luke ,is used in Matthew too when speaks about those who teach a secret rapture:

No, it is definitely not. Gathering the eagles is destruction. It is a hint of the roman armies using the eagle as the standard that came in use by God's hand to destroy Jerusalem Everything listed by way of Noah entering the ark, lot and the eagles gathering, as well as the good man's house being broken up, all refer to unexpected Destruction only.

Mat.24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together

Carcase is a dead body, not at all analogous to the living church.

and then wafter speaks about the false prophets sighn continues in the very next verse (and in the same paragraph )
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
When all this will happen Matthew? Immediately after the tribulation of those days

Amen, God bless

Sun darkening and moon not shining are apocalyptic references used any time a kingdom was destroyed and are not literal. See the book of Isaiah for a few similar references when Egypt was destroyed as well as Babylon.

It's pop-prophecy making millions in movies and pulp books that you've happened upon, and it's rife with error.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's salvation.

John 5 shows Jesus talking about two resurrections. The first is salvation when we hear his voice and come alive into newness of life, as in Romans 6:13 where we are said to be alive from the dead once we're saved, and must pray with that perspective in mind. The second is from the graves and is physical.



I disagree.

The gathering is protection from destruction and wrath -- see the same terms used in reference to Jerusalem at the end of Matt 23, whom HE WOULD have gathered together from trouble, but they refused.

Revelation is not a series of movies of the future. It is symbolic of what would happen after John wrote it, and the symbols are old testament stories that actually occurred literally, but are used as symbols of what would happen in John's future. John was in the same tribulation he wrote about in Revelation. He wrote the book to the early church as his brethren in tribulation. When Jesus spoke to Jerusalem about gathering them together, he said those events would happen in "this generation", which would be the generation he preached to. And the same set of words speaking about gathering together and "this generation" are found in Matt 24 speaking about the church who would be gathered INSTEAD of Jerusalem, "from the four winds". The four winds are the four horsemen that we see called the four spirits/winds in Zechariah 6. Jesus listed the six seals of Revelation 6 in Matth 24. And the first four are the four horsemen of false Christs, wars, famines and death. Tie that with Zech 6 and Rev 6 and see that the four winds he'd gather them from were the four horsemen.



Many trumpet sounds represent different things. Trumpet signaled varying events, like call to war, regathering etc. So, just because we read a trumpet does not mean Resurrection. Read about the seven trumpets in Revelation!

Matt 24 spoke of the first century when NO RESURRECTION would occur.

Jesus was asked about THE SIGN when "these things" would come to pass and the end of the WORLD/AGE would occur, not end of the planet. When they asked about THESE THINGS and the SIGN OF THY COMING, the SIGN was repeated in Mark's and Luke's gospels as the SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS shall come to pass. THESE THINGS refers tot he temple destruction. A COMING of Jesus occurred when the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. He referred to the temple destruction as a COMING of Himself in Matt 21:40 in speaking of the parable of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen. Not all comings are the rapture. That's the SECOND COMING not to be confused with the COMING in local destruction in the first century.



That was a coming of destruction ONLY, not for resurrection or rapture. THE SIGN mentioned in Luke 21, Mark 13 and Matt 24 was the sign of the temple destruction. No word of resurrection is plainly mentioned anywhere in those three chapters. People assume it is resurrection, but the resurreciton f 1 Cor 15 is not at all hinted at plainly in those chapters. Tradition has skewed the reference to the temple destruction in Jerusalem to be the resurrection.



No, it is definitely not. Gathering the eagles is destruction. It is a hint of the roman armies using the eagle as the standard that came in use by God's hand to destroy Jerusalem Everything listed by way of Noah entering the ark, lot and the eagles gathering, as well as the good man's house being broken up, all refer to unexpected Destruction only.


Carcase is a dead body, not at all analogous to the living church.


Sun darkening and moon not shining are apocalyptic references used any time a kingdom was destroyed and are not literal. See the book of Isaiah for a few similar references when Egypt was destroyed as well as Babylon.

It's pop-prophecy making millions in movies and pulp books that you've happened upon, and it's rife with error.

I will tell you (maybe) latter about the rest. But fgrom the begining you start wrong
First Resurrection is Rapture (all the Saint from the beginning till the last days saints that will be alive in after the Grate Tribulation:
First resurrection:
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection

Second resurrection :
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:[U] and they were judged [/U]every man according to their works.1 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by peter83

I will tell you (maybe) latter about the rest. But fgrom the begining you start wrong
First Resurrection is Rapture (all the Saint from the beginning till the last days saints that will be alive in after the Grate Tribulation:
First resurrection:
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection

Second resurrection :
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:[U] and they were judged [/U]every man according to their works.1 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Brother, I don't think you understand preterists.

They use literal interpretation and when they find a bump on the road they go with allegorical interpretation: they will answer you by telling you that the verse is allegorical just because.

If they lived during the times of David, after David's death, they would have told you that this part: [Psa 16:10b NKJV] 10 ... Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. of the scripture must be allegorical because David died and they will find figurative use of "corruption" in other passages to prove their point, even though the passage in Psalms doesn't have any indication that the sentence is a figure of speech.
Thankfully, Peter interpreted that passage correctly, it was literal:
[Act 13:35-37 NKJV] 35 "Therefore He also says in another [Psalm]: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

Preterists have an issue with faith in the Scripture.


Or this scripture:

[Mat 4:13-16 NKJV] 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

They may tell you that that's an example why you need to use allegorical, but if you look closely, the people at that time, the original audience of it, could figure out that it was a figure of speech because Galilee had sunlight. They could see that "sat in darkness" and "shadow of death" is referring to their condition. So, after you translate the figure of speech part by the context, the fulfillment of the prophesy was literal, the actual event happened: the hope to their condition shined in the region as Matthew said it.

It is just common sense, obvious meaning, after you figure out the historical context and the grammar, so you could figure out what the original listeners understood (regardless whether they believed it, or whether they fully comprehended it). The Hebrews were not aliens, but regular human beings, and they use figure of speech as we do, and they figure it out by the context as we also do with modern writings. However, preterists will try to find a hidden allegorical meaning to things that don't fit their viewpoint. Preterists don't have a consistent way of interpreting the Scripture, they have a faith issue that needs to be solved first. Arguing will never end otherwise.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother, I don't think you understand preterists.

They use literal interpretation and when they find a bump on the road they go with allegorical interpretation: they will answer you by telling you that the verse is allegorical just because.

If they lived during the times of David, after David's death, they would have told you that this part: [Psa 16:10b NKJV] 10 ... Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. of the scripture must be allegorical because David died and they will find figurative use of "corruption" in other passages to prove their point, even though the passage in Psalms doesn't have any indication that the sentence is a figure of speech.
Thankfully, Peter interpreted that passage correctly, it was literal:
[Act 13:35-37 NKJV] 35 "Therefore He also says in another [Psalm]: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

Preterists have an issue with faith in the Scripture.


Or this scripture:

[Mat 4:13-16 NKJV] 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

They may tell you that that's an example why you need to use allegorical, but if you look closely, the people at that time, the original audience of it, could figure out that it was a figure of speech because Galilee had sunlight. They could see that "sat in darkness" and "shadow of death" is referring to their condition. So, after you translate the figure of speech part by the context, the fulfillment of the prophesy was literal, the actual event happened: the hope to their condition shined in the region as Matthew said it.

It is just common sense, obvious meaning, after you figure out the historical context and the grammar, so you could figure out what the original listeners understood (regardless whether they believed it, or whether they fully comprehended it). The Hebrews were not aliens, but regular human beings, and they use figure of speech as we do, and they figure it out by the context as we also do with modern writings. However, preterists will try to find a hidden allegorical meaning to things that don't fit their viewpoint. Preterists don't have a consistent way of interpreting the Scripture, they have a faith issue that needs to be solved first. Arguing will never end otherwise.

yeap, that`s why i used those two literal meaning passages,were only two resurrections occur in the Bible thank you !

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

I will tell you (maybe) latter about the rest. But fgrom the begining you start wrong
First Resurrection is Rapture (all the Saint from the beginning till the last days saints that will be alive in after the Grate Tribulation:

. Sorry if I don't take your word for it. Please Prove your claim.

Jesus said in John 5 that there were two resurrections, with the first when you hear his voice and then you become alive. And Jesus proved it was a spiritual resurrection of Salvation because he said the time comes and now is. There's no mention of the grave in that first resurrection. But when Jesus does mention the grave, it's in the next Resurrection where he only said the time will come. Indicating it was not in the then - current period.

First resurrection:
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection

that's talking about salvation. The first resurrection is spiritual and the second Resurrection is physical. That's why you were at the John only saw the souls of those in that first resurrection, not their bodies coming out of graves. The first resurrection is spiritual and is from a life of sin and death. Read Ephesians chapter 2 where it tells us in the first five verses that Jesus resurrected us from a life of death in trespasses and sins.

And since the first death is physical and the second death is spiritual, backwards from the resurrection, those who are in the first resurrection that are saved will not go to the second death which is the Lake of Fire.

The second Resurrection takes us to the white Throne which is called the resurrection or the Rapture in your words. We go straight to the white Throne no stopping at any Millennium no stopping at a need tribulation., straight to the white Throne and judged.

Second resurrection :
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.1 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I believe everything you just read in Revelation chapter 20. But you're interpreting it wrong, because the first resurrection is spiritual in swimwear save, and the last and second Resurrection is physical from the Grave Just Like Jesus ordered it in sequence in John chapter 5.

You claim I am wrong and just State what you believe, but you don't prove I am wrong and you don't prove what you say is correct. You're just repeating a tape recording of what they told you those versus mean.

Let's all become aware of how Ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 to 5 as well as Romans chapter 6 verse 13 are talking about salvation as a Resurrection, being alive from the dead.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother, I don't think you understand preterists.

They use literal interpretation and when they find a bump on the road they go with allegorical interpretation: they will answer you by telling you that the verse is allegorical just because.

lying doth not become you.

It has nothing to do with coming into a bump on the road. It has to do with looking in the rest of the Bible, of which most people today are almost entirely ignorant of, when the early church readily new the Old Testament scriptures, where they knew one book of the Bible more than people today know the whole Old Testament together. I believed what you currently do, and then without even thinking of changing beliefs, I studied the cross and suddenly saw something about prophecy I never noticed before in the bible.

The allegorical interpretation of certain scriptures can only be made if the rest of the Bible uses those same pictures as an allegory. For example, the Sun turning black in the moon to blood was used many times in the Old Testament when speaking about the downfall of a kingdom, which people are hardly aware of today, as I was. Read Isaiah and find out how that one Egypt and Babylon were destroyed and defeated in Conquests, it was like the stars stop shining in the constellations were snuffed out. It's embarrassing to think that these things are taken literally by so many people.

It's like the mark of the beast and the nonsense about a computer chip going on the physical forehead and hand, when it was an allusion to Deuteronomy chapter 6 where the law of God was put on the forehead or on the hand to symbolize loving it with your soul and your might. And Satan has an answer to God's law, which is symbolically illustrated by his Mark of his name on people's foreheads and hands.

In other words, anything we claim is an allegory or symbolic, has to be shown to be so in the rest of the Old Testament especially. We don't make things up as we go along, we have to restrict the symbols to the way the Bible used them.

But people are impatient and they don't take the time to check that stuff out, so they do a knee-jerk reaction and just claim we're making these things up. That, coupled with the idea that the way they believe prophecy cannot be wrong, and that it's impossible for them to have an error, makes it a closed-minded issue for critics of what we're trying to say. And people who won't even study what we're trying to say and listen to us explain it, disobey the scripture in Proverbs that says that if you answer a matter before you hear it, we make ourselves fools.

If they lived during the times of David, after David's death, they would have told you that this part: [Psa 16:10b NKJV] 10 ... Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. of the scripture must be allegorical because David died and they will find figurative use of "corruption" in other passages to prove their point, even though the passage in Psalms doesn't have any indication that the sentence is a figure of speech.
Thankfully, Peter interpreted that passage correctly, it was literal:
[Act 13:35-37 NKJV] 35 "Therefore He also says in another [Psalm]: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

someone once told me there's no figurative Prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament, which is similar to what you're trying to say. But the fact remains, Jesus was prophesied to be a branch and a stem out of the root of Jesse. Do you think he's actually a stick of wood coming out of a cut down stump? And using a hypothetical in the example of David speaking about not seeing corruption, is simply absurd. Enough said on that one.

When we see Revelation, the very first verse, where it told us that those contents were symbols because of the word "signifying". John would see the truth that would be related to him as signified, which means betokened or symbolized. Sign is the root word of signified.

Revelation is not movies of the future. And everything we claim that's in Revelation is not some symbol that we make up to fit our ideas, but it's realizing that John saw things taken from Old Testament actual stories that were used as symbols of what would happen in his future. You only obey Revelation 1 :1 and realize you're supposed to read it as something that was signified, or represented by signs, when you see Jesus as a lamb with seven eyes and 7 horns. And you probably never stopped to realize that out of those Visions in Revelation, there are over 200 references to Old Testament details that God was using to symbolize future events to John. Because the church was so familiar with the Old Testament stories.

So, for people who hardly know the old Covenant Testament writings like that, they hear us say that something in Revelation is from the Old Testament, then ignore that we said that it's from the Old Testament, and then falsely accused us of making these symbols up.

Preterists have an issue with faith in the Scripture.

Or this scripture:

[Mat 4:13-16 NKJV] 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

They may tell you that that's an example why you need to use allegorical, but if you look closely, the people at that time, the original audience of it, could figure out that it was a figure of speech because Galilee had sunlight. They could see that "sat in darkness" and "shadow of death" is referring to their condition. So, after you translate the figure of speech part by the context, the fulfillment of the prophesy was literal, the actual event happened: the hope to their condition shined in the region as Matthew said it.

again, you're making things up about what we might say, when we've never said anything like that at all. But I've been told that none of the Prophecies of Jesus were symbolic, but yet Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would be a stick a stem and a rod out of a root or a stump. You think that is Literal? What about God having his sword bathed in blood, as though there's going to be a big tub full of blood and a sword would lay in it and enjoy a good warm bath? Or what about mountains skipping like lambs? apocalyptic language throughout the Old Testament is often filled with symbolism and poetic imagery. Like David talking about God riding on the wings of the wind with a chariot of Cherubim in 2nd Samuel chapter 22.

And to show that Jesus is the god of the Old Testament, we read in Matthew chapter 24 of the very same imagery that signified lights out for a kingdom when he talked about the Sun turning black in the moon to blood. Will you people look in your telescopes to see if there's a square star coming to Earth, which was claimed by a futurist in the past, Hebrews chapter 12 verse 22 distinctly said we've already arrived at the Heavenly Jerusalem.

It is just common sense, obvious meaning, after you figure out the historical context and the grammar, so you could figure out what the original listeners understood (regardless whether they believed it, or whether they fully comprehended it). The Hebrews were not aliens, but regular human beings, and they use figure of speech as we do, and they figure it out by the context as we also do with modern writings. However, preterists will try to find a hidden allegorical meaning to things that don't fit their viewpoint.

you talk as though we had an idea in mind and then looked into the Bible to force it into that perspective. When in reality I used to believe what you guys believe, and then when I started reading through the Book of Matthew chapter by chapter and came across chapter 21, I realized that after that chapter Jesus would not stop talking about Israel losing the kingdom and another people getting it. And it even went into Matthew chapter 24 when he looked into the eyes of people, if you want to be literal, and told them that those people living at that time would see wars and rumours of wars and and famines and some of them would be killed, and then he use the word this generation referring to them and their generation. You claim your literal, well why don't you accept the fact that Jesus was talking to the Jews and the unbelievers and said that in their generation these things would come to pass, including everything he listed in Matthew 24, when he said the temple destruction would be part of that. You claim you're being literal, but when revelation 1 verse 1 and chapters 1 verse 3 tells us that these things would shortly come to pass and we're at hand, suddenly you become allegorical and claim some idea such as we're going by God's time and not ours in the Earth in those verses.

And then you always run to the scripture you consistently take out of context and claim that one day is as a thousand years with the Lord, when in actuality, Peter was saying it's no harder for God to fulfill a prophecy after a thousand years, then it is to fulfill it after one day. He said no such thing as counting every day as though it was a thousand years in order to calculate the time clock in question.

Preterists don't have a consistent way of interpreting the Scripture, they have a faith issue that needs to be solved first. Arguing will never end otherwise.

I have a very consistent way of interpreting scripture. Book of Revelation starts out by saying everything in the contents of its chapters are signifying, or symbolic. So, I look in the rest of the Bible to find out where that symbol is found in an actual historical account in the Old Testament and realize it is a symbol using those concept surrounding those events that actually occurred, and applying them to the church and Jesus and the New Testament page. And then everywhere else that Jesus spoke about prophecy as well as the apostles, we rely on what the prophets also said, and put it all together. This accusation, saying that we have no systematic interpretation to this, is absurd and unfounded, and it's an empty claim. But you won't take the time and listen to us explain anything, so you'd realize the way we actually have a method and comprehensive system.

Give me an example of how we're not being consistent, but you have to be able to realize what we're saying when we tell you that Revelation, for instance, is using Old Testament actual history as symbols of things to happen in John's future. You never hear us say that though. You ignore we ever said that.

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Originally Posted by peter83

yeap, that`s why i used those two literal meaning passages,were only two resurrections occur in the Bible thank you !

so what about the resurrection Jesus spoke about in John chapter 5, and the resurrection Paul spoke about in Romans chapter 6 verse 13 where we're supposed to present ourselves to God while we pray as those were alive from the dead well our hearts never stopped pumping in our bodies were never removed from a grave to physically resurrect?

And starts to become obvious that these empty claims that people are making against what we believe, are completely unfounded mostly due to lack of awareness of all the scripture. Again, Paul taught in Romans chapter 6 verse 13 that we are to present present ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead. It says that after we read that we were crucified with Jesus so that the old man might be destroyed. How can you say the only resurrections there are literal, when Paul is clearly talking about a spiritual resurrection and salvation?

And I fully believe in a physical Resurrection which shall occur when the resurrection takes place in our future. Our little bodies are going to be made in Mortal. But Romans chapter 6 is not talking about that, nor is the first Resurrection talking about that.

, the fact is that 1st Corinthians chapter 15 has details that you guys just never deal with. Paul said that there's only two times that anyone is going to be ever made alive from the dead. The first one is Christ the first fruits when he resurrected from the grave. The second is after that when those who are Christ's are risen at his coming. There's not a third one after that, there's not one before the Millennium and after the Millennium, there's just two times one two thousand years ago and the next one in our future at the resurrection there's no more after that.

We bring details like this up and you never respond to them. And you just Pat each other on the back and say yep you're right Mike and all those guys are wrong.

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The Bible in the New Testament speaks of a spiritual Resurrection, which already happened to those who were saved. Not to be confused with a physical Resurrection in our future.

Paul taught in Romans chapter 6 that we walk in newness of life after we've been baptized into the death of Jesus. That's not talking about the future physical Resurrection. That's talkin about a resurrection right now when we're saved. It is being saved.

That's why Jesus said that as Christ died and death has no more power over him, but he forever lives unto God, Romans 6 verse 11 says that we need to reckon ourselves likewise to be dead indeed unto sin, and Alive unto God. In other words, his death and Resurrection counts as our deaths and resurrections and we are saved when were resurrected in that fashion.

You've never understood that as a resurrection?

Then, in Romans chapter 8 verses 10, 11 and 12, Paul continues to say that as the spirit raised Jesus Christ from the dead, dwells in us, it quickens our mortal bodies. That is not oyster resurrection because it continues to say this happens so that we don't have to be restricted to living after the flesh. It's talking about victory over the Flesh and sinful forces, when were spiritually resurrected by being saved with Jesus resurrection counting as ours. I died, was buried, and risen from the dead, when I get saved because Jesus death burial and Resurrection was counted for me.

The entire basis of the Gospel is that his death, burial, and resurrection counts as ours. And you don't think there's any other resurrections Than Physical ones from graves?