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  #331  
Old 08-16-2018, 02:16 PM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
They did NOT pray against demonic spirits,
Correct, they commanded them, that they would depart from those who were being afflicted.

Quote:
they did NOT "bind the territorial spirits controlling Jerusalem",
The hind of territorial spirits comes from Daniel, where the Prince (Principality) of Persia resisted the angel Gabriel. Why would a demonic spirit be associated with a given nation if it didn't have authority within that territory? So, we have the source of this understanding. Now, some things should be said about this. First, the Bible doesn't give us any example of believers confronting territorial spirits. In Daniel, the confrontation took place among the angels as a result of human prayer. So, at the very most, if one suspects or has discerned that a "territorial spirit" is involved, I could only see them looking at the story in Daniel and praying for similar assistance from the holy angels.

Quote:
they did NOT "loose the power of God",
They understood the power they had, we often don't. All that the early church did was through the power of God. When one prays in a manner that looses the power of God enough, it will become automatic, as it was in the early church. This is only a temporary innovation to elevate faith to where it needs to be focused, instead of pleading for a miracle to come down, we pray, using the power God gave us through the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 3:12
And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 4:33
And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 6:8
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Quote:
they did NOT sneak to the Temple at night and anoint it with holy (magic?) oil,
I believe that anointing with oil is primarily related to healing the sick. It was used for consecration in the OT, but I see nothing like that in the NT.

Quote:
they did NOT "bind the devils whispering in the officials' ears",
It is common knowledge that spirits tempt, oppress, and torment individuals. Hearing voices, having impulses that one might assume are their own, hallucinations, etc. are often the work of evil spirits "whispering" (for lack of a better term) into the souls of their victims.

Quote:
they did NOT say "we know it is evil spirits doing this to stop the Gospel, not flesh and blood, we love these guys, we want to invite them over for dinner, and meanwhile we BIND THE DEMONS AND FALLEN ANGELS OVER THIS CITY and we RELEASE these officials from being bound to them!"
Our manner of praying today is quite different from their own. This is primarily because we employ measures to bring us into the focus they had naturally. They knew and understood spiritual authority first hand. They'd just command spirits or make declarations and it be done. We can get there too once we begin to pray and work in that manner naturally. But until then, actually verbalizing the act of binding and loosing in relation to spiritual authority assists us with proper focus and faith.

A lot of the things you appear to take issue with are what I call the "training wheels" of the spiritual mechanics in play. For example, praying statements such as:
"I release the power of God to heal this man."

"I bind this unclean spirit and cast it out."

"I loose the blessing and favor of God into the life of this child of God."
These are just spiritual "training wheels", if you will. They are not necessary once one has matured into the fullness of the mind of Christ and understands how to use the power and authority that Christ has given us through the spoken word.
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Last edited by Aquila; 08-16-2018 at 03:04 PM.
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  #332  
Old 08-16-2018, 02:20 PM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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I wouldn't believe it if thinkprogress said the sky was blue. That being said, you are right, we are losing the culture war. All is not lost, however. We have been through similar times, there is nothing new under the sun. We didn't wind up here over night, and we shouldn't expect victory over night, either.

But the day is approaching, and God shall prevail.
What culture war?

That is a social construct. No society on earth has ever properly reflected God's desire for a nation, not even ancient Israel. Our Kingdom is eternal and cannot be moved. The church has always been a minority on earth, a remnant. And we always will be. We are truly strangers and pilgrims in a strange land. I'm at peace knowing that there is no sodomite marriage, abortion, etc. in God's Kingdom. And there never will be. The storm rages... outside of this immovable Kingdom. We're on the inside. Safe and secure... though they slay us.

The idea of a "culture war" is just a social construct to manipulate people's loyalty in the voting booth and with regards to partisan politics. Neither party will truly address, or can address, the issues at hand. All they can do, if held to the fire, is... spend our tax money in ways that benefit us as a society, defend our rights, and protect the boarders.

As it relates to the Kingdom... Christ has already prevailed and we are already firmly established, seated with Christ on high.
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Last edited by Aquila; 08-16-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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  #333  
Old 08-16-2018, 02:56 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
What culture war?
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  #334  
Old 08-16-2018, 03:20 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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Notice who is asking you the question?
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  #335  
Old 08-17-2018, 06:03 AM
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Esther Esther is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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An example of APOSTOLIC "spiritual warfare":
Acts 4:15-31 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, (16) Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it. (17) But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name. (18) And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. (19) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. (20) For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. (21) So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done. (22) For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed. (23) And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. (24) And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: (25) Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? (26) The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. (27) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, (28) For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. (29) And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, (30) By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. (31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Apostolic ministers were in the Temple preaching Jesus. The secular powers (civil and religious) didn't like that, they established it as government policy to stop the spread of the Gospel among the people. So, the church had a prayer meeting.

They did NOT pray against demonic spirits, they did NOT "bind the territorial spirits controlling Jerusalem", they did NOT "loose the power of God", they did NOT sneak to the Temple at night and anoint it with holy (magic?) oil, they did NOT "bind the devils whispering in the officials' ears", they did NOT say "we know it is evil spirits doing this to stop the Gospel, not flesh and blood, we love these guys, we want to invite them over for dinner, and meanwhile we BIND THE DEMONS AND FALLEN ANGELS OVER THIS CITY and we RELEASE these officials from being bound to them!"

No, here's what they did: The preachers made up their minds and made it public that they would NOT cease preaching the Gospel no matter what. They openly declared to the secular powers that obedience to God trumps any pretended authority they had to oppose the good news of Christ's Kingdom. They had a prayer meeting, and after establishing the purpose of the prayer meeting (the government's opposition to the apostolic preaching in public), they got in one mind and one accord, and prayed thus:

1. They identified God as the Creator and Almighty.
2. They identified the WORD OF GOD that stated the exact situation they were facing.
3. They identified the correct apostolic interpretation and application of that Word of God to their immediate situation.
4. They petitioned God to grant ALL His people BOLDNESS TO KEEP ON PREACHING.
5. They petitioned God to confirm the preaching of the Name of JESUS with signs following.

The result? The place was shaken, they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they preached the Word with boldness. Signs and wonders took place (including two lying hypocrites being struck dead in church). And the preaching went forward:
Acts 5:11-14 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things. (12) And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. (13) And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. (14) And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Oh, and let's not fancy that all was well. no, this is genuine spiritual warfare. As a result of this attack by the church on contested ground (the Temple), here's the enemy's response:
Acts 5:17-18 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation, (18) And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.
Yes, real spiritual warfare isn't LARPing from Momma's basement. It oftentimes includes GOING TO JAIL. The church wages war by means of the Divine weapons given to her, and the enemy responds with physical force, imprisonment, and even murders. But what happened?
Acts 5:19-21 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said, (20) Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life. (21) And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.
A Divine intervention occurs, a jailbreak. (How many of you would support a preacher who went to jail for public preaching - "creating a public nuisance and causing a disturbance/disorderly conduct" - and who then BROKE OUT OF JAIL and went straight back to the very area contested in the first place?) The apostles get loose from the jail (now they are fugitives) and show right back up in the enemy's FACE preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The powers that be just couldn't understand what was going on. But they recognised that things were getting out of (their) control. They arrest the preachers but do it carefully because so many people were being positively affected by the preaching that heavy-handed tactics on the part of the police would possibly spark a major riot:
Acts 5:22-26 But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned, and told, (23) Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within. (24) Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow. (25) Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people. (26) Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
The powers that be were AFRAID. Are they afraid of today's apostolic church? If not, why not?

The end result (at least of that go-round)? The powers that be had to regroup and rethink, and decided they couldn't do much so let it go, hoping it would fizzle on its own. Which of course, it didn't.

You speak as though you were there. I don't think you can say what they prayed since you were not there.
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  #336  
Old 08-17-2018, 04:20 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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Originally Posted by Esther View Post
You speak as though you were there. I don't think you can say what they prayed since you were not there.
I can say what they prayed because it is written in the Scripture. Whatever else they prayed, it wasn't recorded. Which means neither Luke nor the Holy Ghost thought it relevant enough to record. Which means what God wants us to learn is what He preserved in His Word, not speculations about what may have been done that aren't written.
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  #337  
Old 08-17-2018, 04:31 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Demons and the believer

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I can say what they prayed because it is written in the Scripture. Whatever else they prayed, it wasn't recorded. Which means neither Luke nor the Holy Ghost thought it relevant enough to record. Which means what God wants us to learn is what He preserved in His Word, not speculations about what may have been done that aren't written.
People the above is called "logical" therefore it makes reasonable sense.
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