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Old 02-05-2008, 05:25 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Just a thought after a chat in the HOLINESS??? thread.

Many have heard preachers for years teach, without questioning them, that we die daily in a spiritual sense. And they quote:

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:31 KJV (31) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Paul was not talking about spiritual dying to sin. He was talking about a physical resurrection in this entire chapter, regarding actual and physical bodies. the death he wrote about in this chapter is a physical death. That is why he said:

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:29-31 KJV (29) Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? (30) And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? (31) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
There is no baptism for the dead (which I believe speaks of being baptized for the sake of Christ's death, since Rom 6:3 says we are baptized into His death, but that is off-topic) if there is no resurrection of the dead. Christ resurrected physically. We would not even get baptized if Jesus never physically resurrected. This is because we are baptized INTO CHRIST'S DEATH for the purpose of rising in the likeness of His resurrection.

Quote:
Romans 6:4 KJV Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Paul was speaking of physical threats to his life everyday! Our text in question -- 1 Cor 15:31 -- is sandwiched between verse 30 which refers to physical threats to his life, and verse 32, which mentions physical threats to his life.

But the most detrimental of all thoughts when we think verse 31 speaks of spiritual dying to sin is that the bible teaches we DIE ONCE to sin, through Christ's death. We do not die over and over again to sin!

Quote:
Romans 6:10-11 KJV For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
As much as Christ died ONCE to sin, we are to reckon ourselves to LIKEWISE be DEAD INDEED to sin. How can we reckon ourselves to be dead to sin ONCE through Christ's death if we believe we die daily to sin? We destroy the whole point of Romans 6!

Not only that, but verse 13 says we are to present ourselves ALIVE FROM THE DEAD to God so He can use us. How can we present ourselves alive to God if we think we are not dead to sin yet?

Quote:
Romans 6:13 KJV Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Saying I DIE DAILY is referring to spiritual dying to sin is destructive of the very keys that Paul gives us in Romans 6 to victorious living!
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:29 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

When Paul spke of dying daily, he was speaking of daily expecting to lose his physicla life by persecutions.

Pressing-On mentioned some great verses that teach mortification of our members. We do mortify, or kill, the deeds of the body, but that is not what 1 Cor 15:31 is speaking about.

Thanks, P-O!
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:38 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
When Paul spke of dying daily, he was speaking of daily expecting to lose his physicla life by persecutions.

Pressing-On mentioned some great verse that teach mortification of our members. We do mortify, or kill, the deeds of the body, but that is now what 1 Cor 15:31 is speaking about.

Thanks, P-O!
You are always so respectful. I appreciate that!

I was always taught that "fighting with the beasts at Ephesus" was referring to "spiritual warfare" BUT reading this portion again he is using a reference - beast - which means to be a beast fighter (in the gladiatorial show), that is, (figuratively) to encounter (furious men): - fight with wild beasts.

I Cor 15:30-32 "And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

So, he's basically focusing on the resurrection as I understand was a problem in Corinth.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:08 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

I was wondering when someone would point this out!
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:31 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Repentance is NOT dying? Repentance is not dying to self-will? Repentance, or dying out to SELF is a thing only done ONCE in a lifetime?

You only do that ONE time?
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:57 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

He died daily in tribulation fighting with beasts (evil men) in Ephesus.

I Cor 15:30-32 "And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Joelel Joelel is offline
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT)
30 ti <5101> {WHY} kai <2532> {ALSO} hmeiV <2249> {WE} kinduneuomen <2793> (5719) {ARE IN DANGER} pasan <3956> {EVERY} wran <5610> {HOUR?} 31 kaq <2596> hmeran <2250> {DAILY} apoqnhskw <599> (5719) {I DIE,} nh <3513> thn <3588> {BY} hmeteran <2251> {OUR} kauchsin <2746> [B]{BOASTING,}[/B] hn <3739> {WHICH} ecw <2192> (5719) {I HAVE} en <1722> {IN} cristw <5547> {CHRIST} ihsou <2424> {JESUS} tw <3588> kuriw <2962> hmwn <2257> {OUR LORD.} 32 ei <1487> {IF} kata <2596> {ACCORDING TO} anqrwpon <444> {MAN} eqhriomachsa <2341> (5656) {I FOUGHT WITH BEASTS} en <1722> {IN} efesw <2181> {EPHESUS,} ti <5101> {WHAT} moi <3427> {TO ME} to <3588> {THE} ofeloV <3786> {PROFIT,} ei <1487> {IF [THE]} nekroi <3498> {DEAD} ouk <3756> egeirontai <1453> (5743) {ARE NOT RAISED?} fagwmen <5315> (5632) {WE MAY EAT} kai <2532> {AND} piwmen <4095> (5632) {WE MAY DRINK;} aurion <839> gar <1063> {FOR TOMORROW} apoqnhskomen <599> (5719) {WE DIE.}

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:11 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprehended View Post
Repentance is NOT dying? Repentance is not dying to self-will? Repentance, or dying out to SELF is a thing only done ONCE in a lifetime?

You only do that ONE time?
I am not speaking about dying to SELF. I am speaking about dying to SIN. 1 Cor 15:31 was not speaking of dying to self.

We are baptized into Jesus' death, to make His death to sin count as our own deaths to sin one single time only.

The context I am speaking about is that WE DIED ONCE with Christ TO SIN. It was appointed for man to die once, therefore Christ died once. Why would He die once since it is appointed to us to die once? It is because His death counts as our deaths we required to pay due to sin.

How many are aware of our deaths with Christ to sin?

We ALREADY died with Christ UNTO SIN. It is DONE, once we are saved.

Romans 6:6 KJV Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 KJV I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:10-11 KJV For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I already pointed out that we MORTIFY or PUT TO DEATH our fleshly deeds again and again. But we are discussing 1 Cor 15:31, which is not speaking about that. 1 Cor 15:31 is speaking solely about Paul's threats to his life that were very PHYSICAL. He was saying he would not risk his physical life by preaching int he caustic persecution atmosphere if there was no resurrection from the dead.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:12 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelel View Post
He died daily in tribulation fighting with beasts (evil men) in Ephesus.

I Cor 15:30-32 "And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
Exactly. Physical threats to his physical life. He counted each day as his last due to expectation to physically die. So he phrased it a daily dying. he was not speaking spiritually here at all.
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:34 PM
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Re: We Do Not Die Daily - WE DIED ONCE

Do all mostly agree we died to sin ONCE, already, but die to self everyday?
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