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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #51  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:37 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

...

Paul taught that the Jews were under Law as a student is under a
schoolmaster. But that was to occur only until Christ came. After
that they are no longer under the schoolmaster of Law.

Gal 3:23-25 KJV But before faith came, we were kept under the law,
shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (24)
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we
might be justified by faith. (25) But after that faith is come, we
are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Notice the term WE and US. Paul was a Jew and was speaking to gentile
Christians and explained that the Jews, not gentiles, were under law
until Jesus came. And when Jesus came, Jews were no longer under law.
This leads into chapter 4.

Gal 4:1-5 KJV Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child,
differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; (2) But
is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
(3) Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the
elements of the world: (4) But when the fulness of the time was come,
God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (5) To
redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption
of sons.

Notice again the WE and US. JEWS. The "elements of the world" is a
term referring to the law's ordinances that were like a schoolmaster,
or ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. Jews were heirs of all, but until they left
elementary school, they were not different than gentiles who were like
servants. But when Jesus came, graduation day from elementary school
of law arrived, and they were actively made into heirs to enjoy their
heritage.

Then Paul referred to the gentiles who got saved. Notice how he
switches from US and WE to YOU.

Gal 4:6-8 KJV And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit
of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (7) Wherefore thou
art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God
through Christ. (8) Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did
service unto them which by nature are no gods.


While the Jews were heirs, no different than servants before they
graduated from elementary school of law, Gentiles were servants to
false gods. This is why he called Gentiles "servants" in 4:1. So
while the Jews left elementary school, Gentiles left idolatry. But
BOTH WERE IN BONDAGE. Jews were in bondage under law and Gentiles were
in bondage to false gods.

Gal 3:23 KJV But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut
up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

And then Paul really drives the point home:

Gal 4:9-11 KJV But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are
known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? (10) Ye observe days, and
months, and times, and years. (11) I am afraid of you, lest I have
bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Notice he refers to YOU since he is speaking to gentile Christians. He
is actually asking them why they want to go under the bondage that the
Jews were under while they were in elementary school of the law, when
even the Jews are not under that any more. And he scolds them for
trying to keep days, months and years. Those days INCLUDED SABBATHS.
Paul actually is teaching here that we should not keep any more days
as holy. And he refers to the months and years which were referring to
JEWISH FEASTS like Atonement and Passover, etc. All these things are
fulfilled in Jesus. They were all a shadow of Jesus.

Some think the days, and months and years refer to pagan holidays, but
that cannot be true. The context was from Gal 3 where Jews kept
ordinances of Law and it carries into chapter 4, making the days,
months and years to be the sabbaths, feasts and sabbath years! A
person has to catch the US and WE contrasted from the YOU to get this.

Sabbath day was only for Israel. there are parts of the world in
northern Canada where the sun never goes down for months during
summer. And it never comes up for months in winter. Sabbath is the
seventh sundown to sundown. This shows sabbath cannot be kept for all
the world's people. It was strictly a Jewish thing in Israel before
Christ came.. It was elementary school using natural object lessons
like refraining from natural work every seven days to foreshadow the
rest in Christ!

Paul also taught in Colossians 2 that the elements of the world were
Law keeping from the Old Testament. It was like elementary school,
hence the term ELEMENTS. And he said the elements of the world, the
elementary school using NATURAL ordinances, was passed away. He said
Moses and all that came before Christ was series of TOUCH NOT, TASTE
NOT, HANDLE NOT, and sabbath falls into that category.

Col 2:16-21 KJV Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath
days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of
Christ. (18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary
humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which
he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (19) And not
holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having
nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase
of God. (20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments
of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to
ordinances, (21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

He said that is living a life as though we never were crucified with
Christ to become dead to the things of the world, or the natural.
RUDIMENTS of the world is the same thing in referring to Law as
ELEMENTS OF THE WORLD. We are supposed to be resurrected with Christ
and thinking on things that are ABOVE and spiritual, not below and
natural like sabbath days.

Col 3:1-3 KJV If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which
are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (2) Set
your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (3) For
ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Instead of concentrating upon touch not, taste not, handle not, like on
sabbath, he said our minds should be focused upon higher things like:

Col 3:12-16 KJV Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and
beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,
longsuffering; (13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one
another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave
you, so also do ye. (14) And above all these things put on charity,
which is the bond of perfectness. (15) And let the peace of God rule
in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye
thankful. (16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all
wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and
spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


Sabbath days were never meant to be kept by the church. Gal 4:10-11
drives that home the strongest.

I have some studies that touch on this issue at my website here:

http://mikeblume.com/eternsab.htm

http://mikeblume.com/messian.htm

http://mikeblume.com/aug1504p.htm

http://mikeblume.com/thelaw.htm

http://mikeblume.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179338695

And many more that mention sabbath occasionally. Taking one day a
week, ANY DAY to rest is wise and our bodies need it. But it is no
longer a requirement to serve God today in the Spirit.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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  #52  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:04 AM
rbennett rbennett is offline
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"Should Christians Be Torah Observant" Carmen Welker
This book may add to your studies, it's only about 200 pages.
She gets a little preachy but the information was good.
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  #53  
Old 05-04-2017, 08:40 PM
Broseanrichard Broseanrichard is offline
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Posts: 102
Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neubill View Post
We suppose that Shabbat is for worship because the Jews gathered in the synagogue on Shabbat, but it should be noted that the Jews also assembled on Mondays and Thursdays (market days) as well. The synagogue was every town's Jewish communal center, both inside and outside of Judea. It became a tradition to assemble on Shabbat and worship Him, but G-d's Word is clear:



Let me share the Jewish perspective with you regarding "...in all your dwellings." In 15 words or less, the Holy Convocation is supposed to take place in the home. Not in a building

Often times, I meet Believers and get to know them in conversation. After the fun tallk, the conversation goes something like,

THEM: "Bill, we should get together on a Friday night sometime and do/go (place destination and Christ-like activity of your choice here) !"
ME: "We'd like that, but our family is involved on Friday nights. Maybe a Saturday night, perhaps?"
THEM: "What do you do on Fridays?"
ME: "Friday is our Family devotion night."
THEM: "Wow, really? What do you do? What's that like?"
ME: "We have a home service unto The LORD. We read from The Bible, pray, worship, sing songs, and glorify G-d by having a Thanksgiving Service unto Him."
THEM: "That sounds really nice."
ME: "Would you like to join us?"
THEM: "Can we? Sure!"

After our Holy Convocation and festive meal, more questions...

THEM: "You do this every week? How long have you been doing it?"
ME: "Yeah, every week. Since we became a family, and that's nine years together."

Tell a believer that you kick back on Saturdays after having a praise, worship, and thanksgiving service at home the night before, it's received well. Tell a believer that you keep the Sabbath and that you have a Shabbat service in your home every Friday night and people treat you like you just kicked Jesus in the stomach.
we do the same. A home service on Friday evenings and a outreach sabbath service on Saturday afternoons.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:33 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Posts: 1,395
Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
The sabbath is a SHADOW of the body of Christ. We have the eternal Sabbath, and not a mere day, when we have Christ.

Sabbath day was a memorial of OLD CREATION. Not NEW. We are in the New creation, and this sabbath NEVER ENDS AT SUNDOWN!!!
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  #55  
Old 05-06-2017, 08:43 AM
Broseanrichard Broseanrichard is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

Sabbath debate worth watching https://youtu.be/ICjFTeUx6eg
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  #56  
Old 07-21-2017, 07:04 AM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

By the way we have church meetings every Sabbath evening. But just because most people can attend Saturday night rather than Sunday.
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  #57  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:39 PM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
By the way we have church meetings every Sabbath evening. But just because most people can attend Saturday night rather than Sunday.
That's because they don't have their priorities right.
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  #58  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:34 PM
peter83 peter83 is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

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Originally Posted by Dordrecht View Post
That's because they don't have their priorities right.

Many people are coming from very long and they need to travel so...Just free from Sunday-Saturday religion.
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  #59  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:06 AM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter83 View Post
Many people are coming from very long and they need to travel so...Just free from Sunday-Saturday religion.
I can see that. :-)
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  #60  
Old 07-26-2017, 09:31 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

I contend that we don't even have to focus our energy on keeping the Ten Commandments.
Matthew 22:37-40 (ESV)
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 (ESV)
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:8 (ESV)
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

1 John 3:23 (ESV)
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

1 John 4:8 (ESV)
8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:21 (ESV)
21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

2 John 1:5-6 (ESV)
5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
God has now written His Law upon our hearts via the Law of Christ, the Law of Love. The Royal Law. It is quite simple to share, but it is perhaps the hardest to actually live by. Here are the commandments of the Law of Christ:
1.) “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
2.) "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
In short, we're called to love God with our entire being, with all that we are. And we are to demonstrate our love for God by loving others as ourselves. There are no required hijabs, dietary laws, festivals, Sabbath days, etc. We are to live a Spirit filled life wherby we live by a Spirit led love in all things. That's it. Just love. Love fulfills the spirit and intent of the entire Law in one fell swoop. Love takes one infinitely higher than the Ten Commandments, or even the entire Law of Moses, ever could. In fact, for the Christian, the Law is too low a standard. Love is all you need.

Love God.
Love others.

The rest is commentary.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-26-2017 at 10:15 AM.
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