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  #41  
Old 01-30-2008, 02:23 PM
Music4Jesus
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

I can see why Bro. Suber recently said, there are people who call themselves Christians but are willing to vote for a party that supports abortion to put a little more money in their own pockets.
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2008, 02:28 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I have heard others suggest Obama's Pastor is a racist and his church, an afro centric church, is racist.

Being Afro-Centric is not necessarily racist though. However I find these comments disturbing

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news," Wright said in the August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ.


But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

"In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01," he wrote on page 7. "White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared,' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."

Obama says he is "proud" of Wright and values their 20-year friendship.
Though Wright has nurtured Obama's political career as a close adviser and mentor, the Democrat presidential hopeful says they don't agree on everything. Wright married Obama and baptized his daughters.

"He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," Wright said. "Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience."
Wright then held Farrakhan up as a pillar of "integrity."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59887
The terrible crime of Darfur that he speaks about is real, but it's not "whites" who are doing the raping and killing, but rather Sudanese Arabs. He's right to be concerned about that, but when he points the finger at an innocent people does come across as racist, at least in my opinion.

But then again, there's that double standard that he complains about. Only "whites" can be considered "racists." Others are free to hate without incriminating themselves.
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2008, 03:54 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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Originally Posted by Music4Jesus View Post
I can see why Bro. Suber recently said, there are people who call themselves Christians but are willing to vote for a party that supports abortion to put a little more money in their own pockets.
Suber fails to realize that the nation with the lowest abortion rate in the entire world is the liberal nation of Belgium. Abortion's legality has nothing to do with the rate of abortion in a given country. South American countries that have completely banned abortion have some of the world's highest abortion rates. Abortion is just an issue the Republicans use to keep us marching to the voting booth and voting for them even though they sell our industry overseas for cheep foreign labor...and then give tax breaks to the companies that do so. Family values start with jobs and wages. You can raise a family if you can't afford to keep a roof over your head.
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2008, 03:57 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Suber fails to realize that the nation with the lowest abortion rate in the entire world is the liberal nation of Belgium. Abortion's legality has nothing to do with the rate of abortion in a given country. South American countries that have completely banned abortion have some of the world's highest abortion rates. Abortion is just an issue the Republicans use to keep us marching to the voting booth and voting for them even though they sell our industry overseas for cheep foreign labor...and then give tax breaks to the companies that do so. Family values start with jobs and wages. You can raise a family if you can't afford to keep a roof over your head.
What is the basis for your liberal position?
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  #45  
Old 01-30-2008, 04:05 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

Name one woman ever forced to have an abortion by a Democrat. Just one. Democrats simply believe the issue is often too complex to be decided by the government and that the government should defer the choice to the individual woman in question. She alone will stand morally as an individual for her choice rather it was needed or not.

My point is that even under Pro-Choice government the one who chooses abortion is the offender. No one forces anyone to have an abortion. Most Republicans and libertarian minded conservatives firmly agree.
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  #46  
Old 01-30-2008, 04:05 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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What is the basis for your liberal position?
Not sure if I understand your question.
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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Not sure if I understand your question.
There has to be a philosophical underpinning or presupposition to offer a cohesiveness to one's worldview. Seeing that most of us profess Christianity I'm interested how you justified your position Biblically. That's all.
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  #48  
Old 01-30-2008, 04:31 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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I find that HIGHLY insulting. Our founders also opposed Laissez-faire Capitalism...you wouldn't call George Washington a Communist would you? They had strong regulations on the state level to keep corporations very limited. They also supported tariffs and taxes that discouraged participation in certain overseas markets. I'm very insulted. That's part of the problem with America. The propaganda machine of Corporate America has brainwashed many good Americans into classifying anyone who would advocate fair trade law as a Communist. America is slowly sinking into a new low. Why don't we just sell the country and declare ourselves Chinese? That's the ultimate outcome of your brand of Capitalism. Your "American Way" is "Made in China." It's time to pick your loyalties. Please don't insinuate that I'm a Communist again. I find that VERY offensive.
Aquila, seriously, get over yourself. Of course average joes like myself are going to snicker at your rants when you use words like laissez-faire capitalism...you open YOURSELF up to funny quips and shots from the cheap seats. That is AFF. That is how I roll...get over yourself, and feel free to criticize my dumb posts as well, believe me, I'm an easy target. Its easy to do, just place me on ignore, but I will call your post as I see them, you no likey...ignore please. March on bru!
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  #49  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:02 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

A little HISTORIC PERSPECTIVE is needed I see….

Aquilla noted that George Washington and his pals placed many very tight regulations on corporations…at the state level..

THIS IS ABOSOLUTLY TRUE.

However, when you say “corporation” to an American living in 21st century America it means something vastly different than saying the word “corporation” to someone living in late 18th century, early 19th century America.

Now you will either get “oh yea I work for one of those” or “big oil! Run for the hills!”

Then, you might get shot.


You see, the worst we have in the form of corporations is a wrong headed notion that “big xxxxxx” is out to make too much money and they don’t care who gets hurt in the process.

Back in 1776, a corporation was a charter by a king, that had extensive powers that included imprisoning people, beating them half to death with a whip, and even stringing them up on the nearest tree. A corporation carried the force of the Sovereigns authority with no checks and balances. They could enslave a perfectly healthy free white man. They could take land away from people who had lived on that land for generations with no appeal to any governing body. In many cases they were the only governing body.


So Aquilla, lets not trot out GWash didn’t like corporations, as a reason to hamstring American business. It’s a bucket that just won’t hold water.
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  #50  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:07 PM
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Re: Is Obama's Pastor

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Originally Posted by ReformedDave View Post
There has to be a philosophical underpinning or presupposition to offer a cohesiveness to one's worldview. Seeing that most of us profess Christianity I'm interested how you justified your position Biblically. That's all.
Well I'm not sure if this will explain what you want me to explain but I'll try. When it comes to abortion, abortion's legality doesn't have any baring on abortion rates. Some of the world's nations with the most pro-life laws have the world's highest abortion rates. For example nations in South America. However, pro-choice nations often have lower abortion rates than these "pro-life" nations. When I was looking into this I discovered some things. Belgium has the world's lowest abortion rates yet it's a Pro-Choice and very liberal nation. Belgium often bills itself as a family friendly nation. Every family in Belgium has health insurance. Families in Belgium do not suffer under suppressed wages. Single parent families have subsidized child care. And a host of other domestic initiatives aimed at helping families be...a family. In America when it comes to health insurance the philosophy is, I got mine you get yours. Oh can't afford yours? Too bad. Hope you find some charity. Oh, charity cannot afford to sustain your cancer treatments? Oh well...I guess you were meant to survive. Later. I'll see you at your funeral. Single parents often face an uphill battle when it comes to jobs and wages to keep them above water. Add the cost of child care the odds are stacked against them. What I'm saying is that Belgium has invested in the family and it's paying off. More women in Belgium choose life because they know they indeed can raise a family and single women with unexpected pregnancies know they can raise a family without working 12-16 hour days for barely enough on the hour to keep a roof over their heads.

America has fallen behind most of the Western Word when it comes to education and most domestic policy initiatives. Belgium has lower abortion rates than we do. Two out of three American women who choose abortion state that they chose abortion because they could afford a family. A good percentage of these were married with already existing children. The American economy doesn't support families. It supports the wealthy. Families face an uphill battle on every front. Our divorce rate is amazingly high. Why do most marriages fall apart...financial problems. Many Americans have worked hard and have actually accomplished a lot. Yet they cannot afford health insurance. When taken ill they are faced with overwhelming health care costs and they loose everything they worked for to bankruptcy. The American economic system is just the opposite of Belgium's. Like it or not families need money to survive. They need economic stability to survive. And right now in America that just doesn't exist. Many families reaching out for the American dream fell prey to predatory lending practices of variable rate mortgages. These banking entities essentially set these families up to loose it all for profits. You can't raise a family without a job. You can't raise a family without a wage that is livable. You can't raise a family without health insurance to address your family's health needs. You can't raise a family in an economy where the cost of goods is steadily rising while wages are not. We often rate a politician as pro-family or anti-family based on their position on two issues...abortion and gay marriage. But in all honesty those are only two issues. And in all honesty families are more directly effected by suppressed wages and lack of health insurance than what the gay couple does down the street. I believe that America would see less abortion if it took a Pro-Family domestic policy position similar to that seen in Belgium. Belgium has the lowest abortion rate in the world. That's nothing to sneeze at.

America is a terrible place to raise a family. We who have spent quite a bit of time in other countries and return to America are often in shock at America's downward spiral. Many foreigners come to America expecting to see prosperity and peace only to be amazed at rampant crime, poverty, and political wrangling. I know a couple from Italy who recently came to the United States. They are currently working on getting back to Italy because they just can't make it here and raise their family.

America can do better than this. Pro-Family means being pro what families need.
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