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Old 03-18-2013, 09:32 AM
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Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

52 year old Methodist pastor with impeccable past shoots and kills wife, wounds 18 year old daughter, then attempts suicide by locking himself in a bathroom and stabbing himself with a knife repeatedly in the chest and neck.

Please use the link and read the fascinating and disturbing news story from USA Today pasted below;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ghter/1868157/

The internet exposes us to many local news stories we would not have ever known about a few years ago. For that reason I do not know if this type behavior is actually on the rise or we are just seeing reports of it now when it occurs outside of our local communities.

In any case when I read a case of a mother killing her children and or herself or something like this article I always wonder if it is a medical condition, mental illness, or demonic possession or influence that is the cause.

When you read a news story about some teenager or even adult who has a history of violent criminal activity it is not a shock to see them be accused of some horrific crime. Usually their history will be one of an extremely dysfunctional family and upbringing, etc.

However in cases like the one I have pasted the link to here it is much less clear. In this Pastor's case he had been suffering medical issues that included some type or heart surgery and then a 15 foot fall off of a back deck at his home while he was recuperating. One report said that he had some bleeding on his brain from hat fall. That indicates his brain may have been compromised.

Interestingly the church he had just moved to pastor has also just gone through the trauma of having a youth leader arrested on sex charges involving a minor. There is absolutely no connection between this pastor and that youth leader though. It was a situation he inherited when he became pastor there.

What do you think? In addition to all of the indirect attacks through culture, etc does satan directly influence or control people who have no history of violence to do heinous acts?
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:00 AM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
(II Timothy 3:1-5, KJV)

We ARE living in "the last days," therefore events such as this should come as no surprise to those who comprehend that which Paul was expressing in this letter to Timothy.

"Incontinent" is defined as ""powerless, impotent;" in a moral sense, unrestrained, "without self-control" (Vine's Expository of New Testament Words). Such shall be the "human condition" that many shall confront during these "last days." Why? Well, perhaps it might be attributable to "mental illness or demonic influence," both whose very "roots" are tracable to the "works" of the enemy, and most assuredly NOT of God.

God has given to each person the privilege of exercising "free will," meaning, we each, alone, are held responsible for the things which we do (or fail to do), and exercising the "blame game" does not relieve us of their eternal consequences. That is, our every action is determined by the decisions which we make, therefore we (alone) will be held accountable unto God for them. I hardly think that God will accept our "blaming the devil" for decisions we make that are in oppostion to His commandments (and surely the killing of another is among them)..

Some might think this is a rather "hard line" approach in determining the liability for such deplorable acts, but that's the manner in which I view it. Whether this be right or wrong, well, I'll leave that determination to the Judge of all the earth.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

Lafon,

I agree completely about personal responsibility. However that does not preclude demonic influence or mental illness for that matter.

For examples, I know a Pentecostal preacher with early onset dementia who has been married for over 40 years but is now in a nursing home where he says one of the women there is his girlfriend. He has no clue as to who his wife is. Not long ago when she visited him she asked him what relation she was to him. He looked at her confused and after thinking a bit said tenatively "sister?". Now this man is one of the finest christian men I have ever known but I do not hold him responsible for not knowing he is married .

I am not saying demonic influence is an excuse for anything. I am just contemplating how much of the time when we see some horrific thing done by someone where it is totally out of character it might be a direct attack by satan on that person that succeeded. In New Testament accounts of demon possession how much of what that person did, once possessed, was controlled by them? Obviously we can resist satan, call on the name of Jesus, and he will flee. However once a person is possessed can they, without external help, eject that demon or demons?
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

Titus2woman on AF
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:14 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

While I do not know about this man's specific situation, I believe demons can oppress a person until they become possessed. The result is quite often suicide or murder/suicide.

I also believe that demonization is to blame in more cases of "mental illness" than we realize.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:30 AM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

A persons mind is very fragile and delicate. I know that this is going to sound crazy and please don't stone me. But in every persons mind there is a touch of something that in the correct conditions could turn into mental illness.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:45 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

My wife's grandfather was always a gentle man until he started to change. He became both violent and took a mistress.

A few years later he was diagnosed with a brain tumor which was successfully removed, and lo and behold, his old personality came back.

Was his actions total free will or mental illness?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:47 AM
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
My wife's grandfather was always a gentle man until he started to change. He became both violent and took a mistress.

A few years later he was diagnosed with a brain tumor which was successfully removed, and lo and behold, his old personality came back.

Was his actions total free will or mental illness?
Was he able to undo the damage he had done while ill? What did he do with the mistress once well?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

Titus2woman on AF
F


"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:49 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Was he able to undo the damage he had done while ill? What did he do with the mistress once well?
Well, THAT is a story. This whole process of him being violent occurred over several years at which point his wife left him (escaped actually) along with my wife's dad when he was just a young boy. Before all was said and done he married his "mistress" (before his surgery) and they spent the next 30+ years together. Eventually my wife knew both as grandma.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:50 AM
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

I am sure that this gentleman's brain has been affected by his injuries. However, I am not sure that I have heard about something this dreadful happening.

Is the Minister remourseful?
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Re: Mental Illness or Demonic Influence?

The article does not say whether or not he was placed on SSRI antidepressants after all he went through, so it is difficult to speculate how this poor individual got in this position.
I have read where SSRI medications have been known to alter the brain chemistry, sometimes for the good to help them work through their problems. Sometimes for the worse, which explains why there have been so many killings committed by people who are on these drugs. The majority of people who are on these types of drugs do not commit murder or any other crimes.

During my time of working with heart patients and with patients who have had a series of unfortunate events happen so close together, they are often placed on a SSRI drug to help them cope. No doctor knows just how the drug will affect their psyche until they take it for a period of time. It is hoped that it will help them to cope better.
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