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  #61  
Old 06-10-2018, 10:57 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

If business was entirely voluntary it would create chaos catering to biggotry and haters. Imagine driving though an area and being parched, dehydrating, and seeking Power Aid. But every business you've stopped at won't sell you and your kids Power Aid because you're white. Antidescrimination laws exist to prevent this.
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  #62  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:12 AM
Wilsonwas Wilsonwas is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Wilsonwas View Post
Momentarily confused you with another poster. But the con guys here all argue the same tired points.
Id rather not type a wall of text, so here is some of what /why I think that Libertarian view of gooberment is compatible with and might be preferable over the general bible belt view that prefers the GOP.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/16/...ibertarianism/
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  #63  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:17 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Wilsonwas View Post
Momentarily confused you with another poster. But the con guys here all argue the same tired points.
Funny, we could say the same thing about you libs.

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
If business was entirely voluntary it would create chaos catering to biggotry and haters. Imagine driving though an area and being parched, dehydrating, and seeking Power Aid. But every business you've stopped at won't sell you and your kids Power Aid because you're white. Antidescrimination laws exist to prevent this.
And you're still refusing to get the point. This isn't about retail sales, where one has a product available to sell already with no qualifiers. A ready made product is just that, ready made.

This is about artistic freedom. Designing a cake is an artistic expression, as such they should have control over their "art". I don't get why you keep trying to conflate the two issues as if they're one and the same. Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you just that dense?
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Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
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  #64  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:27 AM
Wilsonwas Wilsonwas is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
If business was entirely voluntary it would create chaos catering to biggotry and haters. Imagine driving though an area and being parched, dehydrating, and seeking Power Aid. But every business you've stopped at won't sell you and your kids Power Aid because you're white. Antidescrimination laws exist to prevent this.
A business thst wants to stay in business would be very careful about angering the market, if the market were the only power in force to decide if it thrives or dies.
Blue law, and segregation existed and florished with the assistance of, and by the force of gooberment. Seperste but equal, remember,....
Then we turned into a victum society where government was to take the job of legislating morality, and made efforts to equalize outcomes, via anti-discrimination policy, and forcefully by quota etc.. All where men our concerned will never be equal, attempts to do so only result in greater inequity. This is more subtle but still seperate but equal, its still, classism, racism, and inequity.
Most business would sell you your Power Aid because if they did not, people would not purchase from them, and they would go out of business. People are not naturally racist, sexist, bigoted or inequitable, except as sin has allowed for greed, and a want of power to twist them.
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  #65  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:16 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Wilsonwas View Post
Momentarily confused you with another poster. But the con guys here all argue the same tired points.
Nobody on this board argues the points I'm making regarding government's responsibility towards God. As far as I know, I'm the only one here arguing for Biblical theonomy.

"The con guys"? Really? Physician, heal thyself.
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  #66  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:18 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
I don't get why you keep trying to conflate the two issues as if they're one and the same. Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you just that dense?
Because communist agitators aren't about the business of debate or discussion, their job is to shout propaganda until the bayonet replaces the PA system.
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  #67  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:52 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Funny, we could say the same thing about you libs.



And you're still refusing to get the point. This isn't about retail sales, where one has a product available to sell already with no qualifiers. A ready made product is just that, ready made.

This is about artistic freedom. Designing a cake is an artistic expression, as such they should have control over their "art". I don't get why you keep trying to conflate the two issues as if they're one and the same. Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you just that dense?
I see that as possibly being too subjective a thing upon which to base a ruling. I could argue that my "artistic expression" is offended by any number of things and no one can argue otherwise. I'd rather deal with the cold hard facts. If one is incorporated as a business to provide goods and services to the general public, they should be bound by all antidiscrimination statutes that come with such incorporation in a given state or locality.
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  #68  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:07 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilsonwas View Post
A business thst wants to stay in business would be very careful about angering the market, if the market were the only power in force to decide if it thrives or dies.
Blue law, and segregation existed and florished with the assistance of, and by the force of gooberment. Seperste but equal, remember,....
Then we turned into a victum society where government was to take the job of legislating morality, and made efforts to equalize outcomes, via anti-discrimination policy, and forcefully by quota etc.. All where men our concerned will never be equal, attempts to do so only result in greater inequity. This is more subtle but still seperate but equal, its still, classism, racism, and inequity.
Most business would sell you your Power Aid because if they did not, people would not purchase from them, and they would go out of business. People are not naturally racist, sexist, bigoted or inequitable, except as sin has allowed for greed, and a want of power to twist them.
I agree with you quite a bit.

However, that does little to protect the individuals being discriminated against real time from harm, financial hardship, or emotional duress. We're a civilized society. I though Christian businesses were willing to serve all people with excellence in their trade as a service to the greater community until this sort of thing became an issue.

I've only been discriminated against personally once. There was a bookstore called, Beavercreek Christian Bookstore, on Dayton-Xenia Road. It was owned by a man named Terence McLean . I had shopped there quite a bit. The guy had a lot of older titles. Old school Dispensationalist stuff. He was solidly King James Only and so he had a great selection of nearly any King James Bible you could ask for. I loved the store. Their Sunday School supplies were second to none. Well, one day I think he noticed the way my wife was dressed and asked me what church we attended. I told him that we attended the Apostolic Lighthouse Church. With that, he seemed to become very angry. He said, "I don't think we have anything that would interest you." I said, "What's wrong Terry?" We had talked cordially about the Lord and I thought we had a decent business friendship. He said, "You and your wife can leave. Your heresy isn't welcome here." It really shook me and my wife up. I said, "Terry, I've shopped here quite a bit. I also value your friendship, I don't understand...". That's when he cut me off and threatened to call the police. So, we politely left. It was very upsetting and unsettling. My wife was in tears. It also felt like I lost a friend. Not to mention, we were no longer welcome in one of the best little Christian book stores in town. All because of what church we attended. They went out of business a couple years later. It was a real shame.

Last edited by Aquila; 06-11-2018 at 08:18 AM.
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  #69  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:59 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
they should be bound by all antidiscrimination statutes
There's where we disagree, I don't believe there should be any statues that elevate one group above another. By saying you're not allowed to discriminate against blacks (as an example), you then have to prove that you're kicking out a customer because of some other reason than that they're black.

It used to be standard that a company could refuse service for any reason, now a company has to worry that they'll be accused of racism/sexism/whateverism for refusing service. It's guilty until proven innocent, and the militant left will use that presumption of guilt to rain terror down on a business owners head.

Is that really the world you want to live in? It sure isn't what MLK advocated for.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
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  #70  
Old 06-11-2018, 02:20 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: SCOTUS Rulings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
There's where we disagree, I don't believe there should be any statues that elevate one group above another. By saying you're not allowed to discriminate against blacks (as an example), you then have to prove that you're kicking out a customer because of some other reason than that they're black.

It used to be standard that a company could refuse service for any reason, now a company has to worry that they'll be accused of racism/sexism/whateverism for refusing service. It's guilty until proven innocent, and the militant left will use that presumption of guilt to rain terror down on a business owners head.

Is that really the world you want to live in? It sure isn't what MLK advocated for.
You know, I've reflected on this quite a bit and bounced things around in my head from both sides. I just noticed something... in every case I've read about, the Christian business person declined from performing a given service and recommended others in their field who might be willing to perform such services. I thought that was somewhat civil and reasonable. And then I saw this video. This video has me reconsidering my position on this. I'll share it, I already know you will agree with it, but I want to just share it in a spirit of exchange in the conversation, kinda like telling you what I'm considering. Feel free to elaborate on any part of this or share your thoughts...


Last edited by Aquila; 06-11-2018 at 02:24 PM.
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