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Old 07-12-2019, 09:53 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Does Everyone Live Forever?

Many times we have heard Preachers say something like "we are all going to live forever somewhere". This insinuates the unrighteous will have life, but they will live eternally in Hell.

Both Testaments of the Bible oppose this doctrine.

Ezekiel 18:4

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

God does not teach our soul is immortal. The soul that goes on in their sin apart from the forgiveness of Christ and the truth of the gospel will not live eternally.

Many years ago when I was Pastor of a small Church one of the saints there asked me to examine this verse.

Matt 10:28

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Now up till that time I had always taught that the soul would be tormented eternally in Hell. When I read Matt. 10:28 from a non biased way my eyes began to get opened.

Jesus taught the soul DIES not lives in Hell.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

John Baptist taught:

Matt 3:10-13

11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

John says the wicked will BURN UP. Not they shall live eternally in Hell. What does "unquenchable" mean? Apparently it means it is not able to be put out.....until it does what it is supposed to do. Why do I say that?

Jeremiah 7:20

Hear THE LORD declares his wrath against Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah the prophet.

20Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

He says his wrath would burn against Jerusalem and it will NOT BE QUENCHED!

Did this happen?

Jeremiah 52:

12Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, 13And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:

True to his word YAH brought the judgment. His fury was unquenchable. But when it had worked its purpose it ceased. No one quenched it. The Jews whom it was directed against could in no way stop it.

Some 70 years later his people began to rebuild the destruction. His wrath came and was not quenched by anything. But then afterwards it must have ceased for Jerusalem and its temple were restored and at least a remnant of Jews came back to the city and found his favor again.

So when God says he will BURN UP the wicked with unquenchable fire it does not mean they wil stand, sit, or lay in fire throughout eternity. It means they will as CHAFF actually burn up.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

Sodom suffered the vengeance of eternal fire, yet it is not still burning today over in the middle east.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

John 3:16 says the unbelievers will perish, and not have "age-abiding life". The unbelievers will not live forever, anywhere. They will be destroyed, perish, consumed.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

Jesus and the FURNACE OF FIRE.

Matt 13:40-42

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Is this furnace of fire a place where man will live eternally as they are constantly burned? Or was Jesus referring to this?

Malachi 4:1-3

1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

It seems as if when Jesus spoke of the furnace of fire he meant the same thing as Malachi's "firey oven". It was not a place where the wicked would live eternally being burned. The prophet said they would BURN UP and be left with neither root or branch. They would be nothing left of them but ASHES.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 07-12-2019 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:36 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

So for 16 years I had taught the doctrine of men on eternal judgment. The eternal burning theory was so popular that it seemed it could not be wrong. A few people over the years had mentioned to me about the wicked perishing in Gehenna.

I never really gave it much thought until the fore mentioned brother pushed me on it. Just as I felt until that time some reading this may not give it serious thought.

If you do I think you will find a missing element in the foundation doctrine of Christ among Apostolic people today.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 07-12-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:53 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

Quote:
Esaias:

John 3:16 says the unbelievers will perish, and not have "age-abiding life". The unbelievers will not live forever, anywhere. They will be destroyed, perish, consumed.
Exactly right. The most famous verse in the Bible.....Jesus says nothing about the lost living eternally in Hell. Rather he plainly says they will "perish" meaning die.

Apostle Paul a bondslave of Christ and writer of most of the New Testament agreed fully with Jesus as we would expect.

Rom. 6:20-23

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Paul says nothing about living eternally in Hell. As Jesus in John 3:16 he contrasts what the believer will have (eternal life) with what the wicked receive, death or "perishing".

Paul states the same in Romans 8:13.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Its life or death. The wicked will NOT HAVE IMMORTALITY. Even in Gehenna.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:03 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

It is HIGHLY interesting that Paul the Apostle never mentions burning in Hell eternally.

We do note that he sees immortality as being ONLY for the saints.

Romans 2:5-6

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Sinners are not given IMMORTALITY-ETERNAL LIFE.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:44 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

Did the apostle Peter teach the wicked would live and burn eternally in Hell/Gehenna?

We find Peter mentioning what happens to the wicked in 2 Peter 2:12

12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

He understood the wicked would be DESTROYED. He said they would UTTERLY PERISH.

Nothing about them living for eternity in Hell/Gehenna.

He expands on their punishment in verse 17.

17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Since apostle Jude also mentions this lets bring what he said together with what Peter said.

Jude 1:12-13

12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Peter says the wicked will be in the "mist" of darkness. Jude says they will be in the "blackness" of darkness forever.

Does this not sound different than the lake of fire? Do you perceive a lake burning with fire as the mist or blackness of darkness? Lets allow Jesus words to explain.

Matt 13:

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus says the wicked are cast into the furnace of fire. Sounds the same as the lake of fire amen?

Now look at this.

Matt 8:11-12

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In one example the wicked are weeping and gnashing teeth in the lake of fire in the other in outer darkness.

The answer is that the lake of fire is the PLACE where the wicked will die. Then at their death they pass out of existing in other words into outer darkness.

Darkness is a metaphor for death in spiritual language.

Job 18:16-18

16His roots shall be dried up beneath, and above shall his branch be cut off.

17His remembrance shall perish from the earth, and he shall have no name in the street.

18He shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world.

So once cast into the lake of fire for however long their torment will be the wicked will PERISH just like Jesus said in John 3:16.

So far no apostle has taught the wicked will live eternally in Hell/Gehenna.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:51 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

How about James the brother of Jesus? Did he mention having eternal life in the lake of fire?

James 5:19-20

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Looks like James had the same doctrine as the others. He taught the SOUL OF THE WICKED WOULD DIE.
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