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  #61  
Old 12-28-2021, 10:09 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
No frustration! Just trying to understand.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the event is a fictitious thing, but the elements are true to life (heat, thirst, comfort, water, fire, chasms, etc).
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  #62  
Old 12-28-2021, 11:09 PM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

The English word "hell" is derived from the Old English hel, with a cognate in the Old Norse word "hel", with cognates in other languages as well. It's original source is from the Proto-Germanic feminine noun haljō, which means "concealed place/the underworld".

In Hebrew, there is only one term:

sheol

In Greek, there are three different terms:

hades
tartaroo
gehenna

Sheol and hades correspond to each other, and most specifically to the English word "grave", or "the abode of the dead".

The Greek term tartaroo used only once in 2 Peter 2:4, corresponds to Tartarus, the cosmological prison of the Titans, who, according to Greek mythology, were overthrown by Zeus and the pantheon who accompanied him after the end of the Titanomachy. Simon uses the term in reference to the "angels who sinned".

Lastly, gehenna is the word most people associate with the term "hell", since it is a reference to the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, and is the final destination of everyone whose names are not found in the Book of Life. It corresponds to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, as found and described in the Holy Scriptures of the Old Covenant (See, e.g. 2 Kings 23:10, 2 Chronicles 28:3, and Jeremiah 7:31-32).

sheol: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7585.htm

hades: https://biblehub.com/greek/86.htm

tartaroo: https://biblehub.com/greek/5020.htm

gehenna: https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm

Tartarus: https://www.greekmythology.com/Other.../tartarus.html
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  #63  
Old 12-28-2021, 11:14 PM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

In the parable regarding Lazarus and the Rich Man, Jesus uses the Greek word hades:

Quote:
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/16-23.htm

The NIV and ESV, for example, use Hades instead of hell:

NIV:

Quote:
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
ESV:

23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

The question then is, does the use of hades in the Holy Scriptures of the New Covenant correspond to the same Greek mythological and cosmological term, the way tartaroo does with Tartarus.

See: https://www.greekmythology.com/Olymp...des/hades.html
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  #64  
Old 12-29-2021, 06:53 AM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The question then is, does the use of hades in the Holy Scriptures of the New Covenant correspond to the same Greek mythological and cosmological term, the way tartaroo does with Tartarus.

See: https://www.greekmythology.com/Olymp...des/hades.html
The word hades was chosen as the translation of sheol. The Greek concept of hades came closest to describing the Biblical usage of sheol (as opposed to tartarus, for example).

The word hades etymologically literally means "no idea", that is, the absence of mental imagery, scenery, vision, perception, etc. The Bible describes sheol in that way, as I originally posted when I got into this thread.

All pagan religions have at their core the belief in a continued conscious existence of the dead. This is because all pagan religions originate from the lie of the serpent, "you shall not surely die". The Bible however says otherwise.

Egyptian religion claimed the existence of the ka, an invisible body for the soul which allowed the person to continue conscious individual existence after death. Most modern Christianity is just repackaged paganism, so it is no wonder most modern Christians hold Egyptian and Greek views of the soul and death rather than Biblical views.
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  #65  
Old 12-29-2021, 07:31 AM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

I read this book when I was 18. Ruminated on the thought for years.

https://www.religion-online.org/book...n-of-the-dead/
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  #66  
Old 12-29-2021, 07:37 AM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

Was there ever, is there now anyone practicing pure religion untainted with any trace of paganism or false doctrine? The people in the bible never seemed to get it right from the garden, to the flood, through the exodus, the utter corruption and downward spiral of the judges, the monarchy, the Babylonian exile, the hellenization and corruption of the second temple period. The division of the early church between judaizers and hellenizers. The paganism of Christianity that continues to this day.

The long suffering and mercy of God is past understanding. We can come into His presence and He meets with us, leads, guides, and directs us as flawed as we are.

Last edited by Amanah; 12-29-2021 at 08:18 AM.
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  #67  
Old 12-29-2021, 09:10 AM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

Overall in this thread, it seems we should dismiss Jesus’ discussion about the rich man in hell as exaggerated and speaking of other fascinating ideas. The JWs must have got annihilation right.

Last edited by 1 God; 12-29-2021 at 09:20 AM.
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  #68  
Old 12-29-2021, 10:48 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

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Overall in this thread, it seems we should dismiss Jesus’ discussion about the rich man in hell as exaggerated and speaking of other fascinating ideas. The JWs must have got annihilation right.
I think soul-sleep believers have good points. I also believe there are misunderstandings of the Scriptures in their teaching. I also believe there are misunderstanding in non-soul-sleep believers, which is my camp. I believe that in part the misunderstanding in non-soul-sleep believers is the result of mistranslations, i.e. "hell" for two Greek words that mean theologically different things, and as result, they can't see in plain reading the differences. The famous preaching "your first night in hell" is an example of such misunderstanding, or also comments or even songs saying that when you die, you will go to heaven and walk on streets of gold, and see again your deceased relatives and church friends, and such, promises which are instead associated with the resurrection, not with the intermediate state before resurrection.

What we know about our intermediate state is that we will be with Christ, and it is a place of rest.

JW are not the only ones believing in soul-sleep, Seventh-day Adventist also.

I don't see it as a salvation issue to be honest.

Last edited by coksiw; 12-29-2021 at 11:53 AM.
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  #69  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:04 PM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

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Originally Posted by 1 God View Post
Overall in this thread, it seems we should dismiss Jesus’ discussion about the rich man in hell as exaggerated and speaking of other fascinating ideas. The JWs must have got annihilation right.
This thread has nothing to do with the JW’s.
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  #70  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:15 PM
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Re: What's your view on Hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 God View Post
Overall in this thread, it seems we should dismiss Jesus’ discussion about the rich man in hell as exaggerated and speaking of other fascinating ideas. The JWs must have got annihilation right.
You don't have a clue what JWs believe. Most of them don't, either. So you got that in common.

Nobody said exaggeration was involved. Try to keep up, Sean.
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