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  #11  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:07 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
1 Thessalonians 5:9 is the scripture by which I was taught that the church will be in heaven when the earth is going thru tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
God has not appointed us to wrath. Instead, as a solution or contrast to being appointed to wrath, God has appointed us to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice, there is nothing in this scripture about the second coming, no rapture, no resurrection mentioned, no time table, none of that. Furthermore, look at the context of the chapter:

Verse 1 says the brethren have no need for Paul to write them of the "times and the seasons". Why not? Because they knew that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. Does this mean imminence? That it could happen anytime? No, it just means, as Paul explains in verses 3-7, that it comes at a time when the world does not expect.

He explains that we are not in darkness, that the day should overtake us as a thief in the night. This is CLEARLY stating the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night TO THE LOST, not to the saints. The saints are not in darkness, they are awake, they are sober, dressed in the armour of righteousness. And therefore, the day of the Lord does not come upon them as a thief in the night. It does not catch them unprepared. Why? Because the saints are always prepared to meet the Lord!
1 Thessalonians 5:10 (10) Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Whether we live or die is irrelevant. God is not concerned with making sure we don't die. Rather, God is concerned with making sure that we have eternal life. So whether we live, or die, no matter WHAT happens in this life, we find ourselves with Him to live forever. This again proves that the "not appointed unto wrath" has nothing to do with being removed from the earth to avoid the "horrors of the tribulation".

God hasn't appointed any saint unto wrath. And we have already been delivered from the wrath to come:
1 Thessalonians 1:10 (10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
We've already been delivered or saved from the coming wrath. How? By being raptured? No, by being placed into Christ. Pre trib rapture heresy denies we have already been delivered from the coming wrath.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:08 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

The big, bad, tough post tribbers would be whimpering when this happens to them and their loved ones.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:12 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

EVERY SINGLE "PROOF TEXT" the rapturists use in support of their claim can be explained within a post trib rapture understanding.

But there are numerous proof texts used which prove a "post trib" resurrection of the saints that CANNOT BE HARMONIZED WITH THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE TEACHING.

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actualy states the pre trib doctrine. Just like the trinity doctrine, pre trib rapturism is based upon supposition, eisegesis, interpretation, opinion, and exegetical gymnastics. Whereas the truth is based upon the plain and simple declarations of the Scriptures where they speak on the very subject.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

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Chapter 5.....the seals opened to unleash the wrath of God on the inhabitants of the earth.


Chapter 6.....the wrath begins....




Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)

6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
1 Thessalonians 5:9King James Version (KJV)

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,




Right....the church will never see this wrath of God on the inhabitants of the earth as seen in chapter 6.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actually states the pre trib doctrine.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:15 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

...just posted it!
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:15 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

If someone preaches pro-wrath, they can have all they want.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:16 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Did somebody leave the screen door open?
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:17 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:18 PM
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Not a single item of the wrath of God depicted on the inhabitants of the earth from chapter 6 through chapter 20 will affect the Holy Ghost filled saints.

Why? Because the Spirit filled church is not found after chapter 4 on earth.
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