No tithe outside of Israel?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What you are saying here is that it is a SIN to give ten percent of your income to anyone as an act of worshipping God.

Which is preposterous in the extreme.

Please don’t twist my words. I am capable of saying what I want to say without help from you. I said what I intended to say. You said what I never intended to say.

I said it violated the law. Which is absolutely true. You said that I said it was sin, which is absolutely false. Leave my words as they are. If you wonder what I mean by them, ask for clarification.

Comprende?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Please don’t twist my words. I am capable of saying what I want to say without help from you. I said what I intended to say. You said what I never intended to say.

I said it violated the law. Which is absolutely true. You said that I said it was sin, which is absolutely false. Leave my words as they are. If you wonder what I mean by them, ask for clarification.

Comprende?

Whoever commits sin transgresses the law, BECAUSE SIN IS TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

I don't think you really know what you are talking about, to be honest.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Whoever commits sin transgresses the law, BECAUSE SIN IS TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

I don't think you really know what you are talking about, to be honest.

To claim that tithing examples in the OT should be used as proof texts that the NT church should be involved in some kind of tithing is misinterpretation at best, sin at worst. (Not saying you made that claim).

[Amanah]

Since Apostolic house assemblies are rarely an option.
And if you find one it may be unorthodox, Hebrew roots or who knows what else.
Most Apostolics that want to fellowship are going to attend a traditional church.
How do you suggest that people support the ministry?

It seems only fair that if someone is part of an assembly, and there are expenses, that there should be some agreement on a way to support the assembly.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Since Apostolic house assemblies are rarely an option.
And if you find one it may be unorthodox, Hebrew roots or who knows what else.
Most Apostolics that want to fellowship are going to attend a traditional church.
How do you suggest that people support the ministry?

It seems only fair that if someone is part of an assembly, and there are expenses, that there should be some agreement on a way to support the assembly.

I’m not sure if you’re addressing this question is me. My suggestion would be to first be truthful. It is pretty amazing how many falsehoods are contained in the generic tithe doctrine of today’s churches. If we can’t be truthful about tithes what does that really imply about whose children we really are?

I also think it is important to understand that it really is about cost sharing. The notion that the tithe is Holy is true to the old covenant. Today many preachers want to remind us that the tithe is holy, it’s not. If they TRULY believed it were, they wouldn’t feel free to change it from what it was under the old covenant. Their actions and their words are telling different stories.

How to support the ministry? Free will offerings. It’s the New Testament way.

2Cor.9

[7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

I don’t understand why people can’t seem to see this. Do you see anything wrong with this method?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I’m not sure if you’re addressing this question is me. My suggestion would be to first be truthful. It is pretty amazing how many falsehoods are contained in the generic tithe doctrine of today’s churches. If we can’t be truthful about tithes what does that really imply about whose children we really are?

I also think it is important to understand that it really is about cost sharing. The notion that the tithe is Holy is true to the old covenant. Today many preachers want to remind us that the tithe is holy, it’s not. If they TRULY believed it were, they wouldn’t feel free to change it from what it was under the old covenant. Their actions and their words are telling different stories.

How to support the ministry? Free will offerings. It’s the New Testament way.

2Cor.9

[7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

I don’t understand why people can’t seem to see this. Do you see anything wrong with this method?

If you were going to Pastor a church, unless you are wealthy, you need some sort of commitment from a group of people to secure a facility. You need some assurance that you are going to get financial help. You need financial commitments.

I suppose what is worrying me is that so many people are anti tithing, which could result in people not supporting the ministry.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Amanah

If you were going to Pastor a church, unless you are wealthy, you need some sort of commitment from a group of people to secure a facility. You need some assurance that you are going to get financial help. You need financial commitments.

I suppose what is worrying me is that so many people are anti tithing, which could result in people not supporting the ministry.

The average giving in American churches in 3%, and we are doing pretty darn good with that.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Since Apostolic house assemblies are rarely an option.
And if you find one it may be unorthodox, Hebrew roots or who knows what else.
Most Apostolics that want to fellowship are going to attend a traditional church.
How do you suggest that people support the ministry?

It seems only fair that if someone is part of an assembly, and there are expenses, that there should be some agreement on a way to support the assembly.

Give as God leads. Seriously. What is wrong with that?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Whoever commits sin transgresses the law, BECAUSE SIN IS TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

I don't think you really know what you are talking about, to be honest.

I am somewhat puzzled by this remark Esaias. You claim to believe that the tithing laws are NOT to be followed by the church.

Here, you say that a transgression of the law is sin, quoting I believe 1 John 3:4.

I'm going to say this carefully because I think things must not be as they appear. It appears that you are saying on one hand that we are not under the law, and on the other hand that if we transgress that law (the one we are not under), then we are guilty of sinning.

I am sure that this is NOT what you are saying, but it sure appears to be. Could you clear this up? It seems confusing.

Just to clarify, I am saying that the law of tithing is not applicable to us. If others believe that we are under the law of tithing, and that the tithe is holy, it seems to me that they would follow the letter of the law. If they did believe such, it would follow that to transgress this law of tithing would indeed be sin. Paying tithes with money, as you are well aware (I think) was not allowed in the Bible.

And I really appreciate your being honest, even though you honestly believe that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Just for the record, I honestly believe that you don't know what you're talking about when you say that I don't know what I'm talking about.

But I'm not mad about it. You are entitled to be wrong. You are also welcome to come on over and believe the truth. Really, you seem to be almost there.

By the way, If you really believe that I don't know what I'm talking about, and you believe that you do know what I'm talking about, please teach me. I'm eager to learn.

May God bless Bro. Esaias

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

If you were going to Pastor a church, unless you are wealthy, you need some sort of commitment from a group of people to secure a facility. You need some assurance that you are going to get financial help. You need financial commitments.

I suppose what is worrying me is that so many people are anti tithing, which could result in people not supporting the ministry.

Amanah,

I'm going to try to allay your fears somewhat.

The Church of Christ, as you may be aware, does not teach that the church should tithe. Regardless of what you think about their doctrine as a whole, it is a fact that they universally (at least to my knowledge) teach voluntary giving. I suppose you would think of them as anti-tithing.

John McArthur's church runs an attendance of somewhere around ten thousand? They teach voluntary giving. They seem to be doing quite well financially. I suppose you would consider them anti-tithe.

The many churches of Paul seemed to do okay. They grew exponentially. They helped the poor. They believed in supporting the widows and the elders that ruled well. They (Paul anyway) taught that you should not give from compulsion. It should be as you purpose in your own heart. Paul definitely taught voluntary giving. I suppose you might consider Paul to be anti-tithing. (I prefer to think of him as pro-voluntary giving). Here again these many churches appeared to do very well.

Having said all of this, it seems that as apostolics, we are programmed to believe that we cannot make it without the tithe. We profess to believe that we have the real, REAL truth. We seem to be sure that we are the TRUE church of God. We are the one that the gates of hell wither and quake at the mention of.

Yet we cannot make it without fabricating a tithe doctrine that extorts money FROM the children of God.

REALLY????

What is up with this belief?