Whaaaaaaatt???? What's happening in Canada??

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Being from Maine myself, I have very fond memories of Bro. Howe. He and his family were always at Peacove Family Camp each summer. I know his son David better than I knew Elder Bro. Howe himself.

He is going blind due to Diabetes from what I have heard!

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Was this an NB based org? In post #159 I told how my Father-in-law related how in many fellowship meetings you never knew before you got there who was preaching and many times the preacher wound up being a Trinity believer. This would have been in the 50's as my wife was born in 1961.

No, ACOP is basically a Western Canada based organization with its headquarters in Calgary, Alberta. I do recall going to fellowship services with my father when I was a young teenager and remember some of the names of men who I now realize were Trinitarians. I personally think it's sad that there is so much division over Godhead issues nowadays. Separation and isolation leads to even greater misunderstanding I think. Mutual respect and fellowship fosters dialogue that can lead to greater insights into one another's viewpoints.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

He is going blind due to Diabetes from what I have heard!

I'm sorry to hear that BOOM. Is he still pastoring in NH?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I'm sorry to hear that BOOM. Is he still pastoring in NH?

He is indeed still there.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I agree with you ML that the standards for Christians in general in NB were most likely present prior to the formation of the UPC of NB. I know that there were many standard teachings that were nothing more than the personal convictions of some men who were able to popularize these into holiness issues, but at the same time, today it seems the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction to the point that many Christians have no convictions at all.

Pastor Blessed

There is a sad truth in your final statement: "the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction to the point that many Christians have no convictions at all."

One of the greatest dangers facing the twenty first century church is the pressure to conformity that is coming from (To use an overused buzzword) a post-modern world. You can see its effect in the posts on this forum:

- Everybody has an idea, nobody has absolute truth, and every idea is of as much worth as any other.

- Everybody has an opinion, all opinions are valid, and strongly held convictions are an unpopular concept.

There are undoubtedly people who will sneer at the idea of you and I lamenting a lack of convictions among modern Christians, but the truth is that the North American church, not all, but a large segment, is drowning in a sea of worldliness: in love with money, drunken on pleasure, and full of pride.

Some are so infatuated with the concept of liberty that they can't tell the difference between the world and the Kingdom, and others have covered worldly hearts with a cloak of rules until they deceive themselves into thinking they're righteous when they're only religious.

God grant to the North American church transformation through the renewing of our minds until we will love God more than pleasure, and cease seeking entertainment at the altars of God. Lord, wash our eyes with the Heavenly eye salve until we will see the poverty of our materialism, and let our humbled hearts be broken at your altar until we will live as servants rather than entitled lords. Purify us from our religious worldliness until you can see the image of the Son of God in us. Amen.

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

That reminds me of a story my father used to like to tell.

My grandfather Clyde was in the habit of taking the comics out of the Star Weekly, and throwing them out the window as he drove home in the brick plant truck.

As the story goes, one week, as he was making this heave and wave offering to the Lord, the local constabulary pulled him over and fined him for littering.

Which just proves that it costs to be holy.

Interesting...

Let me weigh in on this thread for a minute by saying that I was raised in the home of one of the most awesome Bible teachers in the world whose middle name should have been "balance."

Although I never heard him ever put anybody in hell I was sure aware by the life he lived in front of us and still does that obedience to the Word of God was of utmost importance if you were going to spend eternity in heaven.

As far as the statement above about it costing to be holy, I know it may have been said "tongue in cheek" but I truly believe that it does cost a price to be holy and it is a cost that many seem like they are not willing to pay which is a slap in the face of a God who paid the ultimate price to free us from sin.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I checked with the President of ACOP of Canada, Wes Mills about the quote from Tom Fudge's book. This is his reply;

"ACOP was founded by Franklin Small who clearly had a Oneness view of the Godhead. The Evangelical Churches of Pentecost had a tri-une view of the Godhead.

When the two groups merged in 1953, there was a tacit agreement that both views of the Godhead would be accepted according to the convictions of the individual members.

The statement in our Statement of Faith that deals with the Godhead is very carefully worded so that it is acceptable to both those with Oneness and Tri-une positions.

We do not identify ourselves as a “Oneness group” because we accept varying views on the Godhead."

Thank you for taking the time to get clarification of the ACOP position.

I wonder how this issue is handled at the Full Gospel Bible Institute.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Thank you for taking the time to get clarification of the ACOP position.

I wonder how this issue is handled at the Full Gospel Bible Institute.

Actually it is no longer called Full Gospel Bible Institute. The name was changed to Full Gospel Bible College and then more recently to Eston College. They are just completing an 8 year accreditation process and the college has become more like many Christian colleges, less denominational.

I had a meeting with a representative from the college in my office last week. In response to a number of questions I asked, I learned that only about 40% of the student body are from ACOP churches. The professors are from various denominational backgrounds. I was told that the college presents the various views of the Godhead without any one position being presented as the definitive truth on the subject.

While Eston College is an ACOP endorsed college, it is a separate entity from the ACOP with its own governing Board, etc. I was told that all staff must endorse the statement of faith which is the ACOP statement of faith.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Pastor Blessed

There is a sad truth in your final statement: "the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction to the point that many Christians have no convictions at all."

One of the greatest dangers facing the twenty first century church is the pressure to conformity that is coming from (To use an overused buzzword) a post-modern world. You can see its effect in the posts on this forum:

- Everybody has an idea, nobody has absolute truth, and every idea is of as much worth as any other.

- Everybody has an opinion, all opinions are valid, and strongly held convictions are an unpopular concept.

There are undoubtedly people who will sneer at the idea of you and I lamenting a lack of convictions among modern Christians, but the truth is that the North American church, not all, but a large segment, is drowning in a sea of worldliness: in love with money, drunken on pleasure, and full of pride.

Some are so infatuated with the concept of liberty that they can't tell the difference between the world and the Kingdom, and others have covered worldly hearts with a cloak of rules until they deceive themselves into thinking they're righteous when they're only religious.

God grant to the North American church transformation through the renewing of our minds until we will love God more than pleasure, and cease seeking entertainment at the altars of God. Lord, wash our eyes with the Heavenly eye salve until we will see the poverty of our materialism, and let our humbled hearts be broken at your altar until we will live as servants rather than entitled lords. Purify us from our religious worldliness until you can see the image of the Son of God in us. Amen.

I join with you in your prayer for transformation. I have been working on a paper on Postmodernism for a degree I am working on. I have a much better understanding of the issues of this generation, but I have concluded that I disagree with how many Christian leaders are dealing with this emerging generation. I believe that if we're not careful we will be caught up in the deception of this last day that involves us finding out what the world wants and then giving them what they want simply to have a crowd.

I believe that we need to be real, relevent, and relational. I also believe we have a generation that wants us to be honest with them, who want to experience God, not simply know about God. The challenge is to be relevent without being ridiculous.

In my studies I read of one pastor who had tons of sand brought into the church sanctuary so folks could experience walking with Jesus through the sand as He would have done in His earthly ministry.

I still believe the only power that will bring sinners into a relationship with Jesus Christ so that they can experience God is the power of the Holy Spirit. I also believe the preaching of the cross is still God's method for bringing folks to true repentance and faith in God.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

He is indeed still there.

He always seemed like such a sweet man to me. So friendly and down to earth.