Saved Without A Pastor??

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Harmony

Can a person be saved without a Pastor?

I have been reading the threads on salvation that have been up lately and I just want to scream....You can go thru every step that is out there and your salvation is still unsure......There is really know way to know if you are saved or not.

I am only going off my experience in attending a UPC church all of my life. Absolute submission to the Pastor was KEY to your salvation. If you felt God leading you in a certain way on a "matter" you still needed to have the approval of the Pastor, if they didn't think it was right they expected you to follow there opinion and yes, your salvation was at stake....there are so many weird mind games that were played....and they are all tied into salvation, if you don't adhere to what they wanted then you are in rebellion, and we know that nobody will make it to heaven in a rebellious state!

I have been away from that influence for several years. I have a real concern for family that is still in the church. I am very aware of the "Godly Fear" they live in. They are not sure of there salvation. They don't think on thier own....they think through a filter of "What would my pastor think"..not what would God think....

Ask the Holy Ghost everything,follow no man.1 John 2:[26] These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

[Sister Alvear]

I think everyone needs a pastor but we should have common sense when looking for one.
I would NOT want a pastor that would ask me about every single thing in my life BUT I would want one that I could feel I could talk with him about anything I needed to.
Some men are not pastors they enjoy ruling and being the boss BUT dear ones there are some GOD called pastors out there too! I am blessed to have one.

Now for another point of veiw...some people just want a pastor to suit their fancy...try to help them (correct them) and you will see how much they want a pastor...

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Harmony

Actually it makes salvation much more then a 1,2,3, step process. Why tell someone that they can gain eternal salvation if they follow the three steps above and then come along at a later time and say....well actually there is steps 4,5,6,7,&8 and then you "may" make it into heaven.

What is the reason "Salvation" is so important to gain, when really you don't "gain" it...it is still obscure..

Here we go with the three step conversation. Did Dan put you up to this? I believe one should obey Acts 2:38, but I also believe that those who obeyed Acts 2:38 still have a ways to go. I do not believe in a three step salvation as one would so elequently put it. If one backslides are they still saved just because they obeyed a three step plan?

[simplyme]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Ask the Holy Ghost everything,follow no man.1 John 2:[26] These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

HALLELUJAH, there you have it!
BIBLE sense., I have been saved by the most High Priest, JESUS., whom is the HG that lives in me, and is my pastor, in the spirit., my GOD period.
In both spiritual and physical sense, I already submit to the pastor GOD gave me -
my husband!

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I think everyone needs a pastor but we should have common sense when looking for one.
I would NOT want a pastor that would ask me about every single thing in my life BUT I would want one that I could feel I could talk with him about anything I needed to.
Some men are not pastors they enjoy ruling and being the boss BUT dear ones there are some GOD called pastors out there too! I am blessed to have one.

Now for another point of veiw...some people just want a pastor to suit their fancy...try to help them (correct them) and you will see how much they want a pastor...

I agree with this completely some are not pastors or shepards they are rulers, and I think the problem comes when they go into the ministry because its what is expected of them instead of a true calling....

Yes there are those who want the pastor to be a yes man, but that is not Harmony's desire I know that....

Good points sis

Originally Posted by Joelel

Ask the Holy Ghost everything,follow no man.1 John 2:[26] These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

AMEN....preach it!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

ALL pastors are hinderances and one should never have a pastor they will only abuse you and you will get hurt. Instead get your instructions from forum gurus that have never built a church.

Strawman.

So, Elder, in all seriousness, do you believe one can be saved without a pastor?

[Harmony]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Now for another point of veiw...some people just want a pastor to suit their fancy...try to help them (correct them) and you will see how much they want a pastor...

I understand your point. I think I need a pastor in my life. I just don't think that my obedience to a pastor is going to determine my salvation. I don't think being in rebelion is right either. I just think that I should have a say in what goes on in my life.

I was under the leadership of a pastor for 15+ years and I know that I was not respected as a person. There are so many times I wanted to withdraw from a responsibility because I was raising 4 children and didn't have the energy....If I withdrew I would pay in an subliminal punishment. I didn't have the heart for God's kingdom, I was rejected by their spirits until I got back into the "program" 100%. My kids and husband paid a high price for my involvement. My husbad was very involved as well and our relationship suffered. It takes alot of energy to raise and maintiain family relationships. It can not be done spending 50% of your time on your job, 30% at church, and 20% at home.........

[Sister Alvear]

very sad, my friend.
In travels I have been and am acquainted with all types...from those that want to know what goes on in the bedroom to those who just want your tithes...
However each one of us needs someone we feel that can be our leader, our helper NOT our abuser. And remember some people are never satisfied…
It is a very hard job to fulfill the godly calling of a pastor. Since my husband left for the states I along with a group of ministers am trying to fill his big shoes for a month.
Yesterday a group of us (32) I believe it was were on our way to a special service when the church van had a wreck. It was not our brother that was driving fault but a girl on a bicycle run out in front of the van...It was pretty bad but the girl was not killed but is in the hospital. Hit so hard it busted out the van window and did some damage (not a lot). The people were pretty shaken up.I was on my way in an old car that belongs to our son Raul Jr (ours I let someone else use) so I was going another way and another van following me to make sure I didn´t break down...soon as our people called we turned around went to the scene of the accident...it took a long time to resolve things...the police hauled the church van away...but I prayed with our people and told them we must not let the devil defeat us so we got them all loaded up (sardines) stopped by the bread store and I bought them something to eat and drink and we went on to another one of our churches in town...we were late for their service but it was awesome...
I have been all morning trying to solve problems...everyone has such a sweet spirit. I am not their pastor but my husband is and taking them to church was what I felt would help them after such a scare.
They respect me and I respect them.
Our bus that had took a group over to sing at another church broke down...another problem I have to solve but I have a group of brothers that are seeing what can be done.
All churches will have those that are trouble makers and those that spread lies and gossip and shun the pastor or overseer...but all churches will have those that rally together and uplift the pastor´s hands.
I think we should be careful who we choose to watch over our souls.

There are two sides to every story...I had a pastor call me last week and ask me, Sister Alvear what about so and so...I said Brother in time you will find out...who gives problems one place will give problems somewhere else in time.
And that not only is true of members a pastor that abuses in one place will do the same in another place.
I have a friend who worked many years for the FBI...the person changed names for people that were involved in dangerous crimes for their testimonies...My friend told me, Janice, you can change a person´s name, change their looks but you never really change their likes and dislikes. I have often thought about that...How true it is. The human heart can only be changed by God and even at that there must be a want to and a humbleness to want to change. God resists the proud but giveth grace to the humble.
I do not know what you have suffered but you do and I will earnestly pray for you.
another thing a pastor that does not try to build up strong homes something is selfish in his spirit...a church can be no stronger than the homes that make up the church...

[nahkoe]

This isn't a pastor. This is..that other type of leader people keep mentioning here.

A pastor is available, but not overbearing. Ready with counsel, but doesn't demand obedience.

My pastor has said things, answered questions, yes it's clear what he'd like me to do, but he won't even go so far as to tell me what to do. And his treatment towards me is absolutly no different while I'm not doing it than after I do. He expects me to pray about his counsel and do what *God* leads me to do. So far, those have lined up exactly.

My pastor would like me to be involved in the church more than I am, but he knows I have reasons for hesitating and he respects those reasons.

Originally Posted by Harmony

I understand your point. I think I need a pastor in my life. I just don't think that my obedience to a pastor is going to determine my salvation. I don't think being in rebelion is right either. I just think that I should have a say in what goes on in my life.

I was under the leadership of a pastor for 15+ years and I know that I was not respected as a person. There are so many times I wanted to withdraw from a responsibility because I was raising 4 children and didn't have the energy....If I withdrew I would pay in an subliminal punishment. I didn't have the heart for God's kingdom, I was rejected by their spirits until I got back into the "program" 100%. My kids and husband paid a high price for my involvement. My husbad was very involved as well and our relationship suffered. It takes alot of energy to raise and maintiain family relationships. It can not be done spending 50% of your time on your job, 30% at church, and 20% at home.........