Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Esaias]

And anyone who thinks marijuana isn't mildly hallucinogenic never had the good stuff.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yeah, I'm not to thrilled with the LSD idea. The only thing I've read is how an extract from shrooms helps terminal people who are filled with anxiety come to grips with the fact that they are dying. But the article explained that more research is necessary to understand why.

Personally, I don't lump LSD and cannabis into the same category. Cannabis isn't hallucinogenic. It's more like a sedative that resets brain chemistry through manipulation of the endocannabinoid system, thereby helping with anxiety, PTSD, pain, and

things that short circuit the nervous system, etc.

Etc?

Chris, I won't ask you if you have any idea of the implications of short circuiting the nervous system. Because for you (or anyone for that matter) to make such a buffoon statement as that one is, is totally clueless. That is utter madness, to look forward to having people Zombified through the use of THC.

Seriously, are you paid by some group to post such insanity? Because at least that would give you an out. But if you are doing this on your own, I pity anyone who would dare to be under your tutelage, mentorship, in any shape or form.

Bro, that is why we advocate Jesus Christ's power. Instead of turtle rattles shaken over an individual while you blow shotgun tokes in their face.

You know what the secular world has? The secular world tries every potion, and experiment to save themselves. Everything from Ginkgo Biloba, to chemotherapy. They try everything, they try hard, and some at the end of it try God last. We don't do that, we put all are eggs into Jesus' basket.

Because only there will they not be broken. Only there will be found hope.
Ginkgo Biloba, bean sprouts on your salad, BCCA, penicillin, white willow bark, novocaine, mercurochrome, cod liver oil and abasol may come in handy. But if someone is struggling with intense fear, night horrors, anxiety, sleeplessness, the darkest depression, Jesus is the only answer, not deadening the receptors of the brain.

Chemical lobotomy isn't a good look.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's just it, medical science goes back and forth while we are being experimented on.

I don't think that is true. Individuals who are terminally ill with cancer, or who have severe PTSD episodes that render them incapable of managing their lives, epilepsy, Parkinson's, or any one of the many diseases listed in peer reviewed journals, volunteer to try the drug as a treatment. Many have tried other, more conventional means to no avail, and feel they have little left to loose in just trying cannabis or these other substances. So, while yes, it's experimental to some degree, it's more of a Hail Marry for the patient with the hopes of gaining some relief.

For me, I've tried years of prayer, fasting, pleading, and I've even tried bargaining with God. I've had various men pray for me, anoint me with oil, etc. I've tried to manage my diet caffeine intake, etc. I've tried EMDR therapy, which helped, but it wasn't a silver bullet. I'd have no problem trying medical cannabis. In all honesty, and please, don't mock this. Feel free to mock any part of this post if you like, but this is close to home for me... I don't know if I'll survive the next PTSD attack. If medical cannabis can offer me a regimen of treatment to get this under control while I continue to pray and seek God's healing hand, I'm all for it. It's only cannabis. It used to be legal in the U.S. and was a part of medications here for decades. It was only the Nixon era prohibition on cannabis, with the falsified studies, dishonest testimonies, underhanded legislation banning even the production of hemp that has made it so controversial. Back in 1850, if a medication included cannabis, or if one were to just smoke it in a pipe after dinner, it wasn't considered a "sin" nor a crime. Essentially, lifting prohibition on cannabis wouldn't be opening the door to a brave new world... it would be rolling back draconian legislation and returning America to the way it was before all the prohibition insanity and social engineering of the 1900's.

Some things we thought to be advancements were actually step backwards as we are now finding with chemotherapy. Using THC and LSD as therapies will end up in the same dilemma years down the road. chemotherapy was first used in the 1940s.But just 78 years later we are finding that the practice is not only dangerous, but unnessercery for some patients. The use of cannabis as well as other psychotropic plants and fungi will be found to be just as bad or worse.

I think I can feel your heart in what you're saying above. And I don't entirely disagree. You're right, many "advancements" were actually a step backwards. However, I think it is foolish to think that any advancement will always be a step backwards. Wouldn't you know that part of what has cast doubt on chemo therapy overlaps with some of the research on cannabis therapies for cancer, pain, seizures, Parkinson's etc.?

The other thing I disagree with is the idea that even though you choose to believe that all advancements will be another step backwards, you seem to think that individuals who disagree with that idea shouldn't have the right to find out if that is true for themselves. If someone with a condition wishes to try one of these "advancements" in the hopes of finding relief, who are you or me to stand in their way? I was once told that people with Parkinson's shouldn't be able to use cannabis to relief their tremors and spasms because in many cases they would be high all the time and they wouldn't be able to function normally. But here's the rub... they already can't function normally. Many can't hold down jobs, or even walk to the kitchen to make a sandwich and pour some milk. Even if the cannabis made them "high", at least they gain the functional ability to make a sandwich on their own. The high (assuming the cannabis treatment used has THC) is the least of their worries.

Let people decide for themselves what they are willing to try. Many will try cannabis and decide it isn't for them. Many will try cannabis and discover a new lease on life. And those of us who don't want anything to do with cannabis, well, we can choose not to have anything to do with it.

Moral and spiritual condemnation isn't necessary before hand, especially in cases like these. I'm certain that there are saints of God taking medical cannabis in states where it is legal and it has helped them, and those who are not in the know have no idea. Now, if one starts missing church to burn a bowl to Lord Shiva and comes to church stoned when they do come, yes... I think the pastor should rebuke that kind of behavior. But such a rebuke would be warranted for anyone behaving badly with any substance.

Cannabis is the sacred oil? The Levites were instructed to ingest the oil. Hemp served purposes throughout history, yet cannabis smoking or feeling the effect of the THC is not advocated in the Bible.

Eh, I think there's room to debate on that, but it isn't a hill worth dying on in my opinion. I'll explain the gist of the ideas some have proposed.

The sacred oil contained ingredients listed in Exodus. Calamus contains toxins, and scholars have wondered why calamus would be included in such a recipe. However, some Hebrew linguists have indicated that this "kaneh-bosem" is "canabos", the Greek for "cannabis", and not "calamus". Some say it is an error in translation. Others state that it is a deliberate attempt by Scribes to keep the exact recipe of the anointing oil a secret. The anointing oil was used to anoint sacred objects, priests, kings, and the sick. It was considered to bring blessing and healing (pain relief, sedation, and calm). If they did use cannabis in the holy anointing oil, these would be the effects if ingested through the skin. Some have pointed out that this "kaneh-bosem" might have even been an ingredient in the holy incense burned in the tent of meeting. This wouldn't have been especially odd or out of place in the regional culture. After studying the resin found in incense basins left by Scythian travelers and nomads it was confirmed that these Scythians would burn their sacred incense in their tents of meeting wherein they met with fellow traders, dignitaries, held special ceremonies, etc. The incense brought a sense of peace, calm, and light ease to those who sat inside the tents for deliberation. Essentially, they got buzzed or stoned in those tents, and that helped whatever negotiations being made go over more easily without heightened tensions. Those guests who attended these meetings felt blessed by their hosts as a result of breathing the smoke of the incense while congregated in the Scythian tents. It was like a peace offering.

Now, those who speculate about the ingredients of the holy incense believe that the tent of meeting among the Hebrews followed very similar principles. Only in this tent, Moses and the Priesthood were to meet with God. If the holy incense contained cannabis in the amount believed to have been used, Moses and the Priests would have breathed the smoke of the incense while meeting with God and carrying out their duties, bringing a sense of calm, peace, and relaxation. It would have relieved any physical pain and be felt as a blessing. The idea that an intoxicant would be used in biblical ritual isn't outlandish, the majority of Christians have always used wine as part of the Lord's Supper and in the OT those on pilgrimage to Jerusalem were to drink their fill of wine and strong drink as part of the Festival celebrations.

We're dealing with an ancient Middle Eastern culture with ancient Middle Easter ways. If this were so, it is no need to freak out. The Eastern mindset would have chalked it up to being a part of the blessing that comes from participation. For example, Frankincense and Myrrh are also known intoxicants when breathed in high concentrations, and they too have known healing properties.

Myrrh and Frankincense

Of the ‘chief spices' (literally ‘head spices’) listed in this paradisiacal garden from the Songs of Solomon, eight are identified and seven of them are known to tweak the brain. Both of the resinous gifts of the Magi, for example, are classed as tranquillizers today, though the label doesn’t do them justice. Myrrh targets mu- and delta-opioid receptors (like opium), and frankincense contains dehydroabietic acid which works on GABA receptors (like Valium).

The mode of action on the receptors, and therefore the resulting experience, is quite different from Valium, but the proof of that pudding is in the eating. You can chew up about the size of two peas to start with and go gently beyond that because at some point your intestinal flora will be offended. I think frankincense is lovely, Dioscordes wrote that it could cause madness. You have been warned.

Frankincense also contains incensole acetate, which works on the TRPV3 ion channel. In skin cells, TRVP3 is involved in temperature sensation, but it is also widely distributed in the brain where its functions remain a mystery. Whatever it does, since at least the 16th century BC people felt that it justified a 1,500-mile, six-month camel trek across bandit-infested deserts.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/histo...s-bible-009665

The point is... ancient Israel was an entirely different culture. Their perspective on these things were not clouded by the politics associated with them today. Whatever effects and benefits any substance provided in any given context, if positive and enjoyable, was considered a blessing from God through His creation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Hey I've been to prison which is hell on earth I've got PTSD or had it. The Holy Ghost is good none of those things are advancements, if anything digression. I did all those things regularly besides for acid and it made me worse! There's no healing qualities in any of those things, they've just ran out of stuff to guinea pig people on, so now they've gone to the hard illegal stuff. Why? They can't heal nor do they have any idea how to heal a human. You know why? They are not God, and despite what any serpent tried to sell in the garden (and apparently he's slanging it wholesale today)
we can never be like God. The only way is the Holy Ghost and His presence. You know at Azusa Street the people were healed of their maladies when they received the Holy Ghost because they believed it was possible. They believed it made them brand new all the way brand new, and God honored that to many. So if Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever let me ask this, what's our problem? I venture to say it all is wrapped up in doubt, and has grown into unbelief. Unbelief can't be cured because it comes from someones own decision, a choice!

Stop studying about all this pseudo science psycho battle take it from a delivered ex dope fiend they are lying! Go and study and seek Gods face because He's the only balm in Gilead!

I presented videos wherein cannabis oil eased a man's Parkinson's symptoms. And I presented several videos wherein children with epilepsy ceased having seizures, after all other medications had failed, as a result of cannabis oil. So say what you're saying is like closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears, and refusing to see a reality that is right in front of you.

If you can do that... how can I trust you?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Cancer cured with cannabis? No, Chris I had friends who had terminal cancer, smoked refer while they were on chemo. Still got nausea, still withered down to nothing, still died. You need to be more open to finding an Apostolic church and ministry. Those are the new discoveries we need, new discoveries in Christ through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Cannabis treatments for cancer do not always involve smoking cannabis. That's typically with people who need pain relief and something to jumpstart their appetite.

Did you ever know Vietnam vets to smoke refer? I did, knew a lot of Vietnam vets who smoked it, continue to smoke it. Also some who are Apostolics who would NEVER accept that their PTSD was kept in check through smoking weed. So tell me Chris, why with the plethora of Vets who smoked weed, also still had to deal with their PTSD? Jesus is the only way to deal with PTSD. Not drugs.

If you understood PTSD, you wouldn't be asking these questions. Now, I know you're going to tell me (one with PTSD) that I know nothing about it. I've wrestled with it for over 12 years now. But, hey, I guess you're the expert.

Cannabis only treats symptoms. It isn't a cure. And PTSD can be short lived, or last many years. Every case is different. Cannabis helped soldiers cope in the theatre of war. Many came back to the states and continued to smoke it. I know quite a few vet, and they are successful men today. And yes, most of them smoke. Others came back, continued to smoke it, got caught, got into trouble with the law, had to get clean, turned to alcohol (if they hadn't already), became drunks, abusers, dead beat dads, incarcerated, and suicide statistics.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

it alters your view of reality.

Only temporarily. As with many strong medications, yes, you're functioning is inhibited for a time. It is not the time of being "high" that is most helpful. It is the few days following ingesting the substance wherein one doesn't have the symptoms of PTSD that do in fact distort their reality out of nowhere that is so beneficial.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Weed just makes you not care about "problems", it doesn't solve them. Shrooms help you come to terms with dying because the psilocybin experience is a chemically induced virtual NDE so you think you are "prepared".

LSD helps people quit being drunkards because 300 micrograms of LSD will blow your mind wide open so much that booze will just seem boring as all get out in comparison.

There has been some research showing use of cannabis oil, taken in ways that do NOT produce mental effects, can have certain beneficial effects. But Aquila has gone from arguing for topical cannabis oil to shrooms and acid? Get outta here with that junk.

Actually, I've mentioned that the beneficial properties are primarily CBDs, which have no psychoactive effect. Only in the most severe cases have doctors recommended the stuff with THC content. The stuff with THC is typically used for those with physical pain.

It's the detractors here who insist on discussing the psychoactive side of this.

I assume they agree with CBD use.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

it alters your view of reality.

No, seriously. It interacts with your endocannabinoid system and essentially helps the brain re-establish biochemical homeostasis. If THC is present, the high is produced during this period of stabilizing the biochemistry of the brain. It is the stability provided for 4 to 6 days after the high that is so beneficial.

I've described what it is like having PTSD. Imagine suffering from those symptoms, feeling like every day you're on the edge of a 100 story ledge, even while you're sitting still at home. Now, imagine smoking legally prescribed cannabis and while a high is produced that lasts four or so hours, for the next 4 days, you feel sound and balanced. No nervous shaking, cold sweats, anxiety attacks, violent impulses, nightmares, racing thoughts, intrusive memories, or thoughts of suicide. In fact, compared to how your mind felt prior to smoking, you feel clear as a bell. Calm as rock. For four days. On day five, you detect an instance of racing thoughts, but it fades quickly. Day 6, the racing thoughts begin to come back, subtle anxiety is setting in again. Your mind feels clouded as it did prior to smoking. Nightmares might return at this time. And so, you now know your threshold... four days. So you smoke a little cannabis every four days before bed... for six months... and during that period... everyone who knows you wants to know what happened because now your actually talking to them and interacting normally. Your kids say, "Mom and dad don't fight like they used to.", "I'm not afraid of dad anymore.", "Dad doesn't scream and break things like before.", and your performance at work increases. Your love life returns to normal... it's like you get your entire life back.

That's what it is like for some of us. What's so bad about that? Why would someone say it is a "sin"?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And anyone who thinks marijuana isn't mildly hallucinogenic never had the good stuff.

LOL

Evidently, I never had the good stuff. LOL

The medical cannabis isn't high grade stuff. So, I don't think the serious stoner would be impressed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Etc?

Chris, I won't ask you if you have any idea of the implications of short circuiting the nervous system. Because for you (or anyone for that matter) to make such a buffoon statement as that one is, is totally clueless. That is utter madness, to look forward to having people Zombified through the use of THC.

Seriously, are you paid by some group to post such insanity? Because at least that would give you an out. But if you are doing this on your own, I pity anyone who would dare to be under your tutelage, mentorship, in any shape or form.

Bro, that is why we advocate Jesus Christ's power. Instead of turtle rattles shaken over an individual while you blow shotgun tokes in their face.

You know what the secular world has? The secular world tries every potion, and experiment to save themselves. Everything from Ginkgo Biloba, to chemotherapy. They try everything, they try hard, and some at the end of it try God last. We don't do that, we put all are eggs into Jesus' basket.

Because only there will they not be broken. Only there will be found hope.
Ginkgo Biloba, bean sprouts on your salad, BCCA, penicillin, white willow bark, novocaine, mercurochrome, cod liver oil and abasol may come in handy. But if someone is struggling with intense fear, night horrors, anxiety, sleeplessness, the darkest depression, Jesus is the only answer, not deadening the receptors of the brain.

Chemical lobotomy isn't a good look.

Okay, the words "short circuit" aren't accurate. I meant something more like, "effect" the nervous system. Like epilepsy.

Did you watch any of the videos I offered for your review?