Christmas is pagan

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

That's the point. There is no scripture that backs any side of the issue.

So then you are saying there is no Scripture to back up what you are saying? And that therefore what you are saying should be accepted? Does that not seem, er, a little illogical?

I have made numerous claims in this thread, and supplied Scripture references that I believe support those claims. The other side has been content to either argue that Jer 10 isn't about Christmas trees, or to simply re-assert their personal opinion that God is okay with whatever it is they are doing, without even trying to offer Scriptural support.

So what I am asking you to do is support your contentions. If you believe there is no Biblical support for the propositions you have put forward, then why put them forward? Or, why not at least just say "Apostolic1ness has decreed thus and such, etc"?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So then you are saying there is no Scripture to back up what you are saying? And that therefore what you are saying should be accepted? Does that not seem, er, a little illogical?

I have made numerous claims in this thread, and supplied Scripture references that I believe support those claims. The other side has been content to either argue that Jer 10 isn't about Christmas trees, or to simply re-assert their personal opinion that God is okay with whatever it is they are doing, without even trying to offer Scriptural support.

So what I am asking you to do is support your contentions. If you believe there is no Biblical support for the propositions you have put forward, then why put them forward? Or, why not at least just say "Apostolic1ness has decreed thus and such, etc"?

Its not at all illogical to not provide scripture to support an issue that is not found in the scripture as I stated that is the point of the argument. Again the issue on either side is not found in the scriptures. Neither side of the issue can provide supporting scriptures. The scripture from Jer 10 is not speaking of a christmas tree, its speaking of an idol carved out of wood that was carried around vs5 they must meeds be borne, because they cannot move.
verse 14 continues the same point and mentions the graven image... clearly Jer 10 is speaking of graven images for the purpose of worship and not a Christmas tree and is taken out of context when applied to those with a Christmas tree and you know right well that no Apostolic is worshiping a Christmas tree in the place of God.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Its not at all illogical to not provide scripture to support an issue that is not found in the scripture as I stated that is the point of the argument. Again the issue on either side is not found in the scriptures. Neither side of the issue can provide supporting scriptures. The scripture from Jer 10 is not speaking of a christmas tree, its speaking of an idol carved out of wood that was carried around vs5 they must meeds be borne, because they cannot move.
verse 14 continues the same point and mentions the graven image... clearly Jer 10 is speaking of graven images for the purpose of worship and not a Christmas tree and is taken out of context when applied to those with a Christmas tree and you know right well that no Apostolic is worshiping a Christmas tree in the place of God.

The issue on my side is most certainly found in the Scriptures, hence the thread. I'm not going to repost them yet again, they can be found on the first couple pages. The argument is that adopting pagan customs to the worship of God is forbidden, that Christmas involves an adoption of pagan customs to the worship of God, and therefore Christmas is forbidden. A simple, straightforward syllogism, actually. And, plenty of Scriptures were referenced that prove the first premise, plenty of historical documentation was provided proving the second premise, and therefore the conclusion follows of necessity.

On the other side, no Scripture was provided that showed God approves of adopting pagan religious customs as a means of honouring Him, nor was any historical data provided showing that Christmas is not in fact an adoption and continuation of pagan religious customs, therefore the claim that God either approves of Christmas or does not disapprove of Christmas has failed.

Regarding Jeremiah 10, the passage reads pretty plainly - the heathen cut a tree down, fasten it so it stands upright, and decorate it, as part of their religious customs. The Christmas tree is a tree that is cut down, fastened so it stands upright, is decorated, as part of the religious customs of the heathen, and nowadays, as part of the religious customs of (mostly) protestants. This custom is observed in respect of December 25th, the catholic Feast of the Nativity (aka Christ's Mass). Everyone who does the Christmas tree thing does it at Christmas (the Nativity Feast) and therefore it constitutes a part of the observance of the catholic holy day, using their liturgical calendar. Pagans who likewise observe Christmas do so in respect of the Saturnalia and the birthday of the sun god, but in both cases both groups are doing essentially the same thing: worshipping the sun god. This is because catholicism is essentially ancient Sun worship under the cloak of various Christianisms.

The claim that the Christmas tree is not a part of worship is, as I have previously pointed out, false. Celebrating the birth and the birthday of the god you worship is by definition a liturgical act of worship. Customs associated with that holy day observance therefore are part of the observance. Just like waving the lulav is an act of worship on the part of Jews keeping Sukkot, although nobody ever claims "the Jews are bowing down to and worshipping the lulav". Nobody is claiming anyone bows down and worships the pine tree in drag they've put in their living room, either, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the thing is a religious practice.

[Amanah]

“There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.”
— John Heywood

[Amanah]

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Amanah

“There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.”
— John Heywood

What? No tree?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Oh you mean traditions like church buildings, choirs, tithing, fiefdoms referred to as "churches"?

[Amanah]

To celebrate Jesus' birthday on the same day as the winter solstice, with trees, holly, mistletoe, Santa, reindeer, conspicuous consumption, ect, seems improper, and there is no harm in pointing that out.

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Amanah

To celebrate Jesus' birthday on the same day as the winter solstice, with trees, holly, mistletoe, Santa, reindeer, conspicuous consumption, ect, seems improper, and there is no harm in pointing that out.

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

so you dont have Christmas tree? What about the statue in the front yard?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

so you dont have Christmas tree? What about the statue in the front yard?

I do not have a tree or decorations.

My husband has placed statues in our yard that he did not ask me if I wanted them there or not. My husband has not obeyed the gospel though he accompanies me to church. So if you would like to pray for my family and that my husband will be saved I would kindly appreciate it.