Resurrection in Romans 8:10-11 not from the grave

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes I agree with your teaching here. What a dismal failure the Oneness Churches have produced by not teaching this. Now I realize that I have only known a few Apostolic Churches personally. But I have been quick to listen to Teachers of this faith.

I have only known perhaps 4 Apostolic Churches that taught the essentiality of overcoming sin. I have heard a few that demand you be perfect to THEIR STANDARDS.....and excuse everyone from being perfect to Jesus!

Also the rest of the New Testament agrees with Romans 6-8. The Spirit is very consistent in showing us we must be perfect in Christ.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes I agree with your teaching here. What a dismal failure the Oneness Churches have produced by not teaching this. Now I realize that I have only known a few Apostolic Churches personally. But I have been quick to listen to Teachers of this faith.

I have only known perhaps 4 Apostolic Churches that taught the essentiality of overcoming sin. I have heard a few that demand you be perfect to THEIR STANDARDS.....and excuse everyone from being perfect to Jesus!

Also the rest of the New Testament agrees with Romans 6-8. The Spirit is very consistent in showing us we must be perfect in Christ.

The only thing that I see Oneness churches having an advantage over Trinitarian Pentecostal churches in is that at least in Oneness Churches the vast majority of their attendees still receive the Holy Ghost with IE. Now that is not a small consideration, but other than that I sense God is just as grieved with the OP's as he is the TP's. Having the best music seems to be the main focus right now in the OP churches. I see no "Awakening" type revival in the OP movement as a whole that convicts of sin and shakes society. Some in our movement would claim superiority over Wesley, Whitefield and Edwards, but our movement has never fostered a new awakening like those guys did. We are focused on celebrating Pentecostalism. Thank God we are not rejecting Pentecostalism like many TP churches are. But our focus should be glorifying God rather than preserving an outward portrayal of what we think Pentecost should be.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The only thing that I see Oneness churches having an advantage over Trinitarian Pentecostal churches in is that at least in Oneness Churches the vast majority of their attendees still receive the Holy Ghost with IE. Now that is not a small consideration, but other than that I sense God is just as grieved with the OP's as he is the TP's. Having the best music seems to be the main focus right now in the OP churches. I see no "Awakening" type revival in the OP movement as a whole that convicts of sin and shakes society. Some in our movement would claim superiority over Wesley, Whitefield and Edwards, but our movement has never fostered a new awakening like those guys did. We are focused on celebrating Pentecostalism. Thank God we are not rejecting Pentecostalism like many TP churches are. But our focus should be glorifying God rather than preserving an outward portrayal of what we think Pentecost should be.

I'm seeing signs that God is beginning to move outside the "official" oneness Pentecostal denominational ranks. I'm seeing people and churches that have a Oneness view and baptize in Jesus Name and believe in the Holy Ghost but who have little or even no connection to the UPC, PAW, or any other OP denomination.

Some of this activity is among the Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name crowd but they have a lot of their own baggage to deal with.

I think the spread of Islam in America will contribute to any future awakening by forcing Christians to reevaluate their positions on the place and purpose of God's law as well as eschatology. The two currents will likely come together into a prophecy-based theonomic response to both Islam and secular hedonism/cultural Marxism. The denominations as usual will be left behind as largely irrelevant.

Most of the action will be among homeschoolers, house churchers, and others who do not fit into the mainstream mold. Many separate groups will be coming together and finding consensus on key issues. Oneness Pentecostals who get involved will be amazed to discover others from different backgrounds who are along for the same ride. It will not be "controlled" by Oneness Pentecostals. In fact, Oneness and Acts 2:38 salvation will be understandood as a matter of course, and many OPs will have to let go of jealousy and pride. Same with other groups. I can see the currents rippling under the surface. I don't know when the waves will break forth, or where, but things are never exactly as we expected. So many have prayed for revival, but will not recognise it when it happens.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm seeing signs that God is beginning to move outside the "official" oneness Pentecostal denominational ranks. I'm seeing people and churches that have a Oneness view and baptize in Jesus Name and believe in the Holy Ghost but who have little or even no connection to the UPC, PAW, or any other OP denomination.

Some of this activity is among the Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name crowd but they have a lot of their own baggage to deal with.

I think the spread of Islam in America will contribute to any future awakening by forcing Christians to reevaluate their positions on the place and purpose of God's law as well as eschatology. The two currents will likely come together into a prophecy-based theonomic response to both Islam and secular hedonism/cultural Marxism. The denominations as usual will be left behind as largely irrelevant.

Most of the action will be among homeschoolers, house churchers, and others who do not fit into the mainstream mold. Many separate groups will be coming together and finding consensus on key issues. Oneness Pentecostals who get involved will be amazed to discover others from different backgrounds who are along for the same ride. It will not be "controlled" by Oneness Pentecostals. In fact, Oneness and Acts 2:38 salvation will be understandood as a matter of course, and many OPs will have to let go of jealousy and pride. Same with other groups. I can see the currents rippling under the surface. I don't know when the waves will break forth, or where, but things are never exactly as we expected. So many have prayed for revival, but will not recognise it when it happens.

Good commentary

[Michael The Disciple]

Having the best music seems to be the main focus right now in the OP churches.

And in my own humble opinion they are very far from that distinction.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And in my own humble opinion they are very far from that distinction.

Ain't that the truth.

[mfblume]

After Romans speaks about Spirit-led victory over our own flesh and, and being led by the Spirit to the extent that we mortify the deeds of the body and are no longer debtors to the flesh to be in bondage to it, we find the same note in Colossians 3.

This further confirms the fact that Rom 8:10-11 is not speaking about resurrection of our bodies from the grave, but rather victory over our flesh.

Colossians 3:1-10 KJV If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: (6) For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: (7) In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. (8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. (9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; (10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Notice it says we're risen with Christ ALREADY before the resurrection of the body ever takes place! This is what Romans 8:10-11 is speaking about. And mortifying the deeds of the body in Romans 8 is repeated in Colossians 3 as it says we must mortify our members. When we read of mortifying our members, we see things listed including " fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry."

Romans 6 refers to the mortal body when it says we are not to let sin rule in our mortal bodies. The antithesis to this is the Spirit quickening our mortal bodies in Romans 8.

They're dead because of sin. Because of the fact that sin KILLED Paul when he tried to obey the law and do good in the power of his own humanity. But Ro 6:13 says to yield our bodies to Christ and ourselves as those alive form the dead, so like ourselves, our bodies can be quickened by overcoming through the Spirit the fleshly sins people so often commit.