Resurrection in Romans 8:10-11 not from the grave

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I am going to save these posts to Word. Mike, you are one of the few Apostolic ministers I know who teaches this in-depth from Romans, much less has a clue what it is saying. Our members' spiritual growth is stunted because of they don't hear this kind of teaching. Too many of our ministers are insecure and somehow see Paul's teachings in Romans as a competition for Acts 2:38.

Wow, thanks for your kind words. That's encouraging.

[mfblume]

When you mention Acts 2:38, I indeed saw people think Romans 8 and its reference to walking after the Spirit is what is referred to when you obey Acts 2:38. Period. They think no one who obeys Acts 2:38 can walk after the flesh. So, they think the condemnation of 8:1 is simply being lost, as though walking after the Spirit is simply getting the Holy Ghost.

Not so.

Walking after the Spirit is mortifying the deeds of the body (8:10-11) through yielding to the Spirit according to 6:13.

[mfblume]

Romans 8:11-22 KJV But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (20) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, (21) Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Once we realize that the Spirit of God is not a Spirit of bondage, but is rather a liberating power in us that can quicken our mortal bodies and mortify the deeds of the flesh, we realize creation is depending on us to experience this.

How does the Spirit bear witness with us that we are the children of God? It is by none other than mortifying the deeds of our bodies and thereby quickening our mortal bodies.

We read that creation is under bondage. And since the Spirit is not a spirit of bondage, and He wants to mortify the deeds in our bodies by quickening our mortal bodies, we see that there is a purpose in our relationship with creation. How are we going to be any hope for creation that is in bondage, if we remain in bondage by selling ourselves to sin through our repeated failure to serve God properly?

That's what Paul was actually asking us.

The selling of ourselves to sin is the failure in trying to serve God, like Paul described as the conclusion somebody who resorts to law-keeping experiences.

If the Spirit is a witness that we are the children of God, and He demonstrates that when a child of God yields to Him and allows Him to mortify the deeds of the body, then we start to realize what it means for creation to wait for the manifestation of the sons of God!

They that are led by the Spirit are the sons of God. SONS here in the Greek is HUIOS which is a MATURE son. A mature son of God is full of understanding and knows how to allow the Spirit to quicken the mortal body. So, when we read the Spirit witnesses that we are God's sons, and those led by the Spirit to mortify the deeds of the body are the ones who are the sons of God, we now understand what the manifestation of the sons of God refers to. It is speaking about sons of God who are visibly known to be sons by their experience of seeing the Spirit mortify the deeds of their bodies. They know how to yield to God as those alive from the dead so the Spirit can then take that risen believer and ANIMATE him or her to mortify the deeds of the body and cause them to WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

There's a difference between being alive from the dead, and walking as those who are risen. Being alive refers to the state of being. but WALKING refers to actually LIVING IT OUT in practical everyday life. Therefore, when we read the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God, so it=, too, is no longer in BONDAGE, we are reading that creation needs to see some believers who are mature enough to see the Spirit mortify the deeds of their bodies can cause them to stop sinning all of the time. But, if we're bound in the way Paul described bondage in chapter 7, having sold ourselves under sin, how are we going to liberate creation from its bondage? Bound believers cannot liberate bound creation!

When glory is revealed in us, that is the time creation shall be delivered from bondage. And it is related to seeing the Spirit mortify the deeds of our bodies.

[mfblume]

Albert Barnes also agrees with me on this issue:

Rom 8:11 Shall also quicken - Shall make alive.

Your mortal bodies - That this does not refer to the resurrection of the dead seems to be apparent, because that is not attributed to the Holy Spirit. I understand it as referring to the body, subject to carnal desires and propensities; by nature under the reign of death, and therefore mortal; that is, subject to death. The sense is, that under the gospel, by the influence of the Spirit, the entire man will be made alive in the service of God. Even the corrupt, carnal, and mortal body, so long under the dominion of sin, shall be made alive and recovered to the service of God. This will be done by the Spirit that dwells in us, because that Spirit has restored life to our souls, abides with us with his purifying influence, and because the design and tendency of his indwelling is to purify the entire man, and restore all to God. Christians thus in their bodies and their spirits become sacred. For even their body, the seat of evil passions and desires, shall become alive in the service of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes I agree with your teaching here. What a dismal failure the Oneness Churches have produced by not teaching this. Now I realize that I have only known a few Apostolic Churches personally. But I have been quick to listen to Teachers of this faith.

I have only known perhaps 4 Apostolic Churches that taught the essentiality of overcoming sin. I have heard a few that demand you be perfect to THEIR STANDARDS.....and excuse everyone from being perfect to Jesus!

Also the rest of the New Testament agrees with Romans 6-8. The Spirit is very consistent in showing us we must be perfect in Christ.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I always heard it said for many years as a young Christian that the resurrection in the following verses is about the day the trumpet sounds and all bodies of the saints in the graves rise to meet the Lord. But upon careful reading, I now see that's not what it's about at all.
[indent]Romans 8:10-11 KJV And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Yes our bodies are dead because of sin "BUT IF" the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also "quicken" 2227 in strongs numbers means to revitalize, make alive, give life.

So the scripture is telling us that although our bodies are dead because of sin, the Spirit of God is LIFE and IF the Spirit of God dwells in us, God Himself will revitalize and give life to our dead bodies by His Spirit.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Yes our bodies are dead because of sin "BUT IF" the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also "quicken" 2227 in strongs numbers means to revitalize, make alive, give life.

So the scripture is telling us that although our bodies are dead because of sin, the Spirit of God is LIFE and IF the Spirit of God dwells in us, God Himself will revitalize and give life to our dead bodies by His Spirit.

Amen. However, the resurrection life it is speaking about is not like the resurrection when the trumpet sounds and the dead in the grave rise again. It is the resurrection of rising from the death like Paul described in chapter 7.

Romans 7:9 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And unless we consciously look to the Spirit to find help and empowerment from Him, it's as if we're missing the purpose of even having His Spirit within us. Yes, we need His Spirit in us to enjoy this, but we can have the Spirit and still not enjoy it so long as we're stuck in the oldness of the letter way of serving God. I believe Paul was showing the contrast between the two ways to serve God with 7:9 and 8:10-11. If we have the Spirit, we need to know we can be empowered by Him, and do what 6:13 says in order to experience what 8:10-11 says.

[Sean]

Your mortal bodies are not yet quickened, but crucified with Christ.

[Sean]

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is no way quickened yet.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is no way quickened yet.

Bye Sean