Demons and the believer

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Strong's Number H7854 matches the Hebrew שָׂטָן (satan),

below are some examples of the use of H7854 שָׂטָן (satan),

So you have to conclude that the word Satan, meaning adversary is not restricted to one being.

Any seasoned scholar of Scripture knows that the term "satan" simply means "adversary". And so, as you said, it can refer to any adversary.

My question is rather simple. Do you deny that the Scriptures teach that there is a primary spiritual "Adversary" know as, "Satan", who seeks to destroy mankind and thwart the will of God, with a host of demons who are willing to do his bidding?

[Apostolic1ness]

for Aquila's sake, 1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
the underlined word "the" is a definite article, in this sentence "the" is used as a function word to indicate that the following noun is a unique or particular member of its class.
the underlined word "he" in this sentence is a pronoun and is used as a substitute for the word "devil" whose referents are understood in context.

In this scripture the devil is referred to as a single individual. (Although there can be many devils).

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

for Aquila's sake, 1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
the underlined word "the" is a definite article, in this sentence "the" is used as a function word to indicate that the following noun is a unique or particular member of its class.
the underlined word "he" in this sentence is a pronoun and is used as a substitute for the word "devil" whose referents are understood in context.

In this scripture the devil is referred to as a single individual. (Although there can be many devils).

[Amanah]

I don't know of a scripture that states there is one primary spiritual adversary, but we do have the governments and false religions of this world.

The First Beast

13 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it tthe dragon gave his power and uhis throne and great authority. 3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and vthe whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. 4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.2 And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all awho dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in bthe book of life of the Lamb dwho was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear:


10 If anyone is to be taken captive,

to captivity he goes;

if anyone is to be slain with the sword,

with the sword must he be slain.

Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

The Second Beast

11 Then iI saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence,3 and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of4 the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast nthat was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not oworship the image of the beast pto be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave,5 qto be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, rthe name of the beast or sthe number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number uof a man, and his number is 666.6

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I don't know of a scripture that states there is one primary spiritual adversary, but we do have the governments and false religions of this world.

So, you don't believe that the spirit that Jesus encountered in the wilderness during the Temptation was literally the "ha-Satan", the Adversary, a spirit that spoke through the serpent in the garden, the spirit that had influenced numerous men down through history, the spirit that was allowed to try Job, the spirit that influences authorities and world leaders?

It seems like you know what I'm asking, but you're afraid to answer directly.

[Amanah]

I am in the process of studying the subject myself. Lucifer is a good example. I was taught that Is 14 was about a rebellion in heaven, but upon closer examination (in context) it appears to be talking about an earthly ruler.

I see discrepancies in what I was originally taught.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Scripture teaches that all sin comes from within man. Mark 7:15 specifically rules out ANY outside agency defiling a person or causing them to sin, and James 1:14-15 specifies the mechanism by which sin occurs.

Therefore, Peter's words to Ananias must be understood in that light, which will show what "satan" is being discussed there. There is more than one satan, devil, enemy, or adversary.

He is talking about eating being something entering from without entering the belly not the heart. That does not mean a spirit can't enter a person.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I am in the process of studying the subject myself. Lucifer is a good example. I was taught that Is 14 was about a rebellion in heaven, but upon closer examination (in context) it appears to be talking about an earthly ruler.

I see discrepancies in what I was originally taught.

I can respect that answer.

I want to remind you of a few things to keep in mind as you study.

In the West, we think a lot like Grecians. It's a Western manner of thinking that is often philosophically broken because it thinks is paradigms of "either/or". We think that just because something is up, it can't also be down. Sounds logical right? The Mid-Eastern mind doesn't think in this kind of paradigm. A good example would be Jesus Himself. Is He man or is He God? Is He the Son of God or is He the Father? The answer to each of these questions is "both". Now, regarding up and down... what if one is standing on the South Pole? The Eastern mind expands one's conceptualizations into considering seemingly contradictory and opposing thoughts and concepts as equally valid realities often relating to circumstance and context. This is called "both/and" logic. And... it often blends seemingly opposite things into a single reality. Those indoctrinated in Greek logic couldn't grasp many of the Eastern concepts in Scripture. And this is one reason why we ended up with the doctrine of the Trinity. They couldn't see logically how Jesus was both the Father and the Son. So, let me show you something interesting about Lucifer, the King of Babylon...

Isaiah 14:3-23
3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.

First, it is obvious that Isaiah is prophesying against an earthly human king, the King of Babylon. And everything spoken here about this earthly king is true, the man weakened the nations, smote his people, laid waste to his enemies, and even began to declare deity status, as can be seen in the emboldened part of this text. He was a tyrant. And Isaiah is prophesying that this tyrant will die one day and be nothing but worm food. (Remember, the OT doesn't elaborate on the afterlife, it is an incomplete revelation. But we can be certain that the destiny of this King is what we would call, Hell.)

Now, let's go deeper. Isaiah calls the King of Babylon, "Lucifer".

The name "Lucifer" (as translated from the Latin Vulgate) had been around prior to this prophecy. What did it mean? In Hebrew it is, "Helel ben Shaḥar", translated, "Day star, son of the Dawn". The name "Shahar" is the name of an ancient god (demon). Shahar is the god of dawn in the pantheon of the city Ugarit. Shahar is described as a child of El along with a twin, Shalim, the god of dusk. As the markers of dawn and dusk, Shahar and Shalim also represented the temporal structure of the day. This deity was widely worshiped in this city, and his worship was also found among the ancient Hittites.

Let's get back into the text. In this passage the prophet Isaiah calls the King of Babylon the "Day Star, son of Shahar" (Lucifer), essentially connecting him to the ancient Ugarit god. Now, this is interesting because Shahar isn't a Babylonian deity. Why would Isaiah connect this King of Babylon to the deity of an unrelated people?

I believe it is because Isaiah understood that the very same evil spirit that ruled the hearts of the Ugarit Hittites, also ruled the heart of the King of Babylon. Isaiah understood that Israel wasn't dealing with individual human rulers, and human empires... but rather, they were contending with a single spirit pushing to be manifest in the kings and empires around them... for the purpose of their destruction. And so, Isaiah is addressing the human King of Babylon, and the very demon that possessed the King. Isaiah addresses them as being one and the same.

So, was Isaiah addressing a human ruler or an evil spirit? The answer is: Both.

It would be like prophesying against Hitler, and calling him "Baal" or equating him to "Caesar" in the process because clearly the same evil spirit that as found manifest in ancient times to destroy the Jewish people... is also at work in Hitler. I'd be rebuking both Hitler and the evil spirit abiding within him. The Eastern mind would regard them as one and the same.

So, try not to get caught up in the "either/or" paradigms of Western logic. Think with an Eastern mind. A mind that often answers, "both/and".

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The real spiritual battle takes place in the soul (1 Peter 2:11), through carnal temptations internally derived through the law of sin in our members (Romans 7:23), generating lusts untold if or when we have not been crucified with Christ (James 1:12-16, Galatians 5:24).

The war that is not against flesh and blood, then, is simply an indication that the battle is not one you're going to wage with your physical body, because it's a spiritual war happening deep within your innermost being.

This idea that "flesh and blood" is merely a metonym for the human race isn't accurate. We do wrestle against other humans, but not (hopefully) in any physical way. Almost all of our battles, large and small, have to do with dealing with the fallen race of man, ourselves included in that mix. We are urged to pray for our enemies. Who are they? Evil spirits or human people? We are commanded to forgive our enemies. Who are they? Evil spirits or human people.

This idea that the Devil is the only real enemy in the world, and that no humans, per se, are enemies to the church, isn't accurate. Alexander the Silversmith did Paul much evil. Alex was an enemy to Paul and the Apostolic mission of Christ (2 Timothy 4:14). The Galatians had become Paul's enemies simply because he had told them the truth (Galatians 4:6). At the end of the Apocalypse, the Devil doesn't simply wage war against God all by his lonesome (Revelation 20:7-8). After God smokes them all, and they stand in their judgment later in the chapter, do you suppose "the devil made me do it" is going to work with Jesus? No, these people were more than happy to try and swarm the Lord and His Bride, because they are enemies to God's people.

So are they whose gods are their bellies (Philippians 3:18-19). The Psalms are replete with references to human adversaries constantly working against the people of God, or of David the King, specifically (and so, prophetically of the Son of David).

The armor of God, and their symbolic representations, therefore, are for the benefit of your soul (e.g. salvation, righteousness, truth, peace, faith). These things are designed to protect and save you, first and foremost, from yourself, when otherwise left to your carnal devices.

But also, they protect and save you from the carnal devices of others who would who try and lay claim to you, to make ownership or merchandise of you, so as to try and get you to blaspheme and renounce Christ, just like all of the 1st to 3rd century persecutions under the auspices of Rome were designed to get Christian believers to include the Caesar in their worship.

When God saves someone, Christ's name is written in blood on his or her adoption papers. God alone owns you as His (1 Corinthians 6:20). This "bought with a price" concept speaks to possession. God OWNS you. If so, no one else can lay claim to you, not even you, yourself.

So, no Christian is ever possessed by anything or anyone other than the Lord Himself, or they are not a Christian.

As far as oppression goes, that only occurs when a saint has been living like a sinner, walking in condemnation and darkness, not repenting and getting right, rejecting sobriety and being vigilant. Such things are obvious indications that a person is allowing the war for their soul to be won against them, through the flesh. You cannot be oppressed by any power whatsoever, unless that power is more powerful than you are, and if you think the devil is more powerful than you and the Holy One living in you, you are walking in a level of defeat and humiliation that is beneath you as the Redeemed of the Lord. You are supposed to be sitting in heavenly places with Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3 and 2:6).

Evil spirits don't wander around Christ's throne looking to snatch away God's kids from off His lap. You have to wander off from the shadow of God's wings for that to happen.

Now, I will say that sometimes, as a matter of testing, of the trials God desires we go through and pass, he may permit us an opportunity to encounter an evil spirit or two or ten along the way. But the goal there isn't to let the devil overpower us and make us cave into its whims, but to strengthen us and help us learn something we might not otherwise be able to understand. Otherwise, or rather, apart from that, it's 1 John 5:18,



If you are not sinning, and are begotten of God, and are keeping yourself, no evil spirit can touch you.

Now I agree with this. But other things being stated on this thread are only half the big picture.

[Esther]

I have read this thread with shock that some I thought were grounded in the Word could believe as they do. These scriptures came to my mind.

Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing. But inwardly they are traveling wolves.

Matthew 24:11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Disclaimer: I am not calling anyone posting on this thread a prophet.