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  #11  
Old 03-25-2017, 03:34 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Re: Marriage.

There are 5 short parts.

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  #12  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:27 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Biblically, a marriage is a contract between a man (the groom), the bride, and the bride's father. The groom's father also has an advisory role, but is not the final authority, it seems.

So for a marriage to be valid in God's eyes there needs to be two or three witnesses and a public declaration of marriage (with the consent of the bride's father or nearest male relative responsible for her, unless there are none) followed by a consummation. The exchange of vows would certainly certainly suffice as the "contractual terms" although they could also just be written out and the two parties publicly affirm their commitment to the terms.

No preacher needed. And the "license" or PERMISSION resides a) in the stipulations of God's Word as to what constitutes marriage and b) in the consent of the bride's father to give her in marriage.
There is no stipulated contract or procedure for marriage anywhere in Scripture.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-27-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2017, 08:27 PM
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Re: Marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
There is no stipulated contract or procedure for marriage anywhere in Scripture.
Wrong. Democrats love to believe that, so they can push fornication as "marriage".
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2017, 10:25 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Wrong. Democrats love to believe that, so they can push fornication as "marriage".
I don't mind being corrected. I've researched the issue and know all about the Ketubah. However, my point is, it isn't in Scripture. If it is, could you provide it?

P.S.

Most Democrats are big on state involvement, with marriage licenses being granted to non-traditional couples (gays, polyamorous, polygamous, etc.). Most of those who have grown leery of government involvement in marriage and consider shying away from civil licensing are Conservative Republicans. For example, here is the Marriage Pledge (which our fellowship has agreed to):
The Marriage Pledge:


In many jurisdictions, including many of the United States, civil authorities have adopted a definition of marriage that explicitly rejects the age-old requirement of male-female pairing. In a few short years or even months, it is very likely that this new definition will become the law of the land, and in all jurisdictions the rights, privileges, and duties of marriage will be granted to men in partnership with men, and women with women.

As Christian ministers we must bear clear witness. This is a perilous time. Divorce and co-..habitation have weakened marriage. We have been too complacent in our responses to these trends. Now marriage is being fundamentally redefined, and we are ..being tested yet again. If we fail to take clear action, we risk falsifying God’s Word.

The new definition of marriage no longer coincides with the Christian understanding of marriage between a man and woman. Our biblical faith is committed to upholding, celebrating, and furthering this understanding, which is stated many times within the Scriptures and has been repeatedly restated in our wedding ceremonies, church laws, and doctrinal standards for centuries. To continue with church practices that intertwine government marriage with Christian marriage will implicate the Church in a false definition of marriage.

Therefore, in our roles as Christian ministers, we, the undersigned, commit ourselves to disengaging civil and Christian marriage in the performance of our pastoral duties. We will no longer serve as agents of the state in marriage. We will no longer sign government-provided marriage certificates. We will ask couples to seek civil marriage separately from their church-related vows and blessings. We will preside only at those weddings that seek to establish a Christian marriage in accord with the principles ..articulated and lived out from the beginning of the Church’s life.

Please join us in this pledge to separate civil marriage from Christian marriage by adding your name.

Drafted by:

The Reverend Ephraim Radner

The Reverend Christopher Seitz

Source: https://www.firstthings.com/marriage-pledge
You might also consider doing additional research before laying such accusations:
Bad idea for ministers to sign marriage licenses, pastors insist
https://www.baptiststandard.com/news...pastors-insist

Right or Wrong? Signing state marriage licenses
https://www.baptiststandard.com/opin...NlcyI7fQ%3D%3D

2nd Opinion: Pastors, stop signing those marriage licenses
https://www.baptiststandard.com/opin...NlcyI7fQ%3D%3D

Editorial: Marry church and covenant; divorce church and state
https://www.baptiststandard.com/opin...NlcyI7fQ%3D%3D

Pastors want covenant certificates to replace marriage licenses
https://www.baptiststandard.com/news...NlcyI7fQ%3D%3D

Marriage by Biblical Covenant
Not State License

http://www.truthinliving.org/Marriage_Covenant.php

Holy Matrimony vs. Marriage
http://presys.com/~ekklesia/mvm.htm

Marriage Proposal: Why Not Privatize?
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1657
In addition, we have plenty of commentary from CONSERVATIVES regarding how marriage licenses should be abandoned by serious Bible believing Christians. Here are two leading conservatives who have commented on the issue:
"My personal opinion is government shouldn’t be involved. The whole country would be better off if individuals made those decisions and it was a private matter." ~ Ron Paul

"The best approach is to make marriage a private matter. When we no longer believe that civilization is dependent on government expansion, regulating excesses, and a license for everything we do, we will know that civilization and the ideas of liberty are advancing." ~ Ron Paul

"Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State—literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given it’s unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella
I think you're incorrect in your assumption that marriage without licenses is a liberal or Democratic notion. In fact, most Democrats that I know would like to reinstate Common Law Marriage statutes, which would legally recognize the union of many cohabitating couples who wish to avoid marriage licensing. In this way, the government recognizes any union established by a couple claiming "marriage"... license or not.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-28-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-28-2017, 10:27 AM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Re: Marriage.

I sure can't find it if there is one.
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  #16  
Old 03-28-2017, 11:49 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Many churches and fellowships (both liberal and conservative, Esaias) today offer Commitment Ceremonies for couples that do not desire to get a Civil Marriage. The elders in our fellowship don't even seek state minister's licenses, so legally they can't sign off on civil marriage documents. Our statement of faith reads in Section 4, paragraphs D, E, & F:
D. A head of household does not need to be licensed in order to lead his own family, nor does he/she need to be licensed if his/her work expands beyond his/her own household.

E. The Apostolic Fellowship reserves the right to function as a religious network of Christian believers without government intervention and regulation. Since we receive our authority from God and not from man, we will not seek to be recognized by any federal government as an officially incorporated institution. Elders are not to be licensed by any state or government body.

F. Elders serving in Christian ministry within the Apostolic Fellowship are to disengage civil marriage from Christian marriage in the performance of pastoral duties. Elders are to refuse to serve as agents of the state in marriage. Elders are to decline from signing government provided marriage licenses and/or certificates. Elders are to ask that couples seek civil marriage separately from any church-related vows, promises, commitments, and/or blessings.
With the above in mind, our elders can only officiate over Commitment Ceremonies (or Recommitment Ceremonies). Should a couple desire to have a Civil Marriage, we advise them to go down to the courthouse to get one prior to, or soon after, any Commitment Ceremony that is performed. Interestingly, it isn't the young people who ask about Commitment Ceremonies the most. It is typically older people who are divorcees, retirees, and those who have never been married but understand civil marriage statutes.

One might ask, "What is a 'Commitment Ceremony'?"
A commitment ceremony is often very similar to many other kinds of weddings. The difference is that rather than being a legally binding ceremony, it is simply a public affirmation of a couples commitment to one another in the eyes of God, family, and friends. A commitment ceremony may be religious or secular, formal and traditional or loose and unstructured.

The makeup of the ceremony will depend on the rules of the officiant/house-of-worship and the couple's own preferences. However, generally speaking, these are the key elements:

Greeting
The officiant welcomes guests to a celebration of the love and commitment between the couple. He or she will probably also say a few words about their relationship, or about marriage/commitment in general.

Vows/Promises
This is the part where the couple declares their intent to be a committed or married couple. As in any kind of wedding, they will make promises about what that commitment means. They may promise to love in sickness and in health, in richness and poverty, till death do they part. Alternatively they may write their own vows or promises.

Readings/Music
A religious commitment ceremony will likely incorporate hymns and scripture readings that focus on love. (Many religious officiants will have a standard set of music and readings that are often used at commitment ceremonies and weddings.) A secular ceremony will usually also include music and readings about love, including poems, passages of literature, famous quotes, personal writing, pop songs, and classic wedding music.

Exchange of Rings
The couple exchanges promise rings, and says a few words about what these rings mean. It may be:
"With this ring, I thee wed."
"I give you this ring as an expression of my love and commitment to you."
"I'm honored to give you this ring as a symbol of the promises I've made to you today, and a proclamation to the world of the love I have for you."
A Quaker promise is also quite popular in some fellowships:
"In the presence of God and these our friends I take thee, to be my husband/wife, promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful wife/husband so long as we both shall live."
Or anything else the couple wishes to say.

Pronouncement of Marriage
The officiant announces to the guests or congregation that the couple is now married (joined/united/wed - whatever word you prefer to say) and invites the couple to kiss. Some couples may not be used to kissing in public and thus may only have a very small kiss, or forgo this part altogether. Others will relish the moment to have the opportunity to kiss each other in front of their loved ones, proclaiming their love, and pride in having that love.

Reception
Most couples will follow the ceremony with a reception of some kind. As with all weddings, there are no rules as to what this should be - it can be very formal and traditional, or as casual as a backyard picnic. It may include traditional wedding elements such as the first dance, cake cutting, and bouquet toss, or may just be an unstructured party. Generally the invitation will give some clues as to what it will be like (e.g. Please join us after the ceremony to toast the happy couple or A reception at the Springfield Country Club will immediately follow the wedding)
It is important to counsel couples regarding their desire for a Commitment Ceremony. First, they must understand that in some states common law marriage statutes might legally recognize the union established by a Commitment Ceremony as a legally binding union. Second, they need to understand the necessity of having the appropriate wills and powers of attorney in place to legally act in one another's absence and to ensure the transfer of assets upon death. In some states it is recommended that a couple file a cohabitation agreement with the courts to protect property rights. All these details can be worked out prior to or after a Commitment Ceremony.
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2017, 11:54 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Here is a video of an informal Quaker wedding (Quaker weddings do not have an officiant or preacher):

  #18  
Old 03-28-2017, 11:57 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Here is a more formal example of a Quaker style wedding (no preacher or officiant):

  #19  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:27 AM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post

I think you're incorrect in your assumption that marriage without licenses is a liberal or Democratic notion.
See? You either can't, or don't read. I never said "marriage without licenses is a liberal or Democrat notion."

Good grief.
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  #20  
Old 08-29-2017, 04:11 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
See? You either can't, or don't read. I never said "marriage without licenses is a liberal or Democrat notion."

Good grief.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. I thought that was what you meant when you said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Wrong. Democrats love to believe that, so they can push fornication as "marriage".
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