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  #1  
Old 08-04-2018, 03:27 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

When I first got into church, I was taught that when believers sin they are lost until they ask for forgiveness and "get back under the blood."

Do you think this is true? Why or why not?
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:29 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and calls us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to mature, it gives birth to death James 1:15. So, let's put that into rewind, For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sinful action and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death 2 Corinthians 7:10. We are told by the scripture that we are to grow into mature followers of Christ. Willful sin is practicing sin. 1st John 3:1 See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don't recognize that we are God's children because they don't know him. Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? John 14:9. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.

So, we are to be mature in Christ, and deviating from that doesn't happen overnight. The "Christian" who comes home one night and is confronted by his wife, who tells him that she found out about his affair. Didn't lose his position as husband, father, and defender of the faith just one morning. It is a weed that springs up and chokes away the spiritual life Matthew 13:4-8.

1 John 3:3 tells us that we need to do the heavy lifting, to purify ourselves to be as pure as Jesus Christ. This is our journey to be a good soldier in the army of the Lord 2 Timothy 2:1-8. Just as a soldier we are not to be entangled mixed up with the world which is outside of recognizing Jesus Christ. Because by being entangled we lose our position. This isn't about repent, go back repent, go back. If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45. We may come to ourselves as we brings the pig slop to our mouths, but that also might not come overnight. A battleship is pretty big, and the power it takes to turn it around takes a lot. A tractor trailer takes a lot to stop it, Because of its weight and speed. Therefore we should walk in the light, so we can see where we are going. Following a sighted guide who is Jesus Christ, and surrounding ourselves with seasoned mature brethren who won't always tell us that we are right, especially when we are wrong. Because the wounds of a friend are faithful Proverbs 27:6.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2018, 04:49 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and calls us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to mature, it gives birth to death James 1:15. So, let's put that into rewind, For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sinful action and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death 2 Corinthians 7:10. We are told by the scripture that we are to grow into mature followers of Christ. Willful sin is practicing sin. 1st John 3:1 See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don't recognize that we are God's children because they don't know him. Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? John 14:9. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.

So, we are to be mature in Christ, and deviating from that doesn't happen overnight. The "Christian" who comes home one night and is confronted by his wife, who tells him that she found out about his affair. Didn't lose his position as husband, father, and defender of the faith just one morning. It is a weed that springs up and chokes away the spiritual life Matthew 13:4-8.

1 John 3:3 tells us that we need to do the heavy lifting, to purify ourselves to be as pure as Jesus Christ. This is our journey to be a good soldier in the army of the Lord 2 Timothy 2:1-8. Just as a soldier we are not to be entangled mixed up with the world which is outside of recognizing Jesus Christ. Because by being entangled we lose our position. This isn't about repent, go back repent, go back. If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45. We may come to ourselves as we brings the pig slop to our mouths, but that also might not come overnight. A battleship is pretty big, and the power it takes to turn it around takes a lot. A tractor trailer takes a lot to stop it, Because of its weight and speed. Therefore we should walk in the light, so we can see where we are going. Following a sighted guide who is Jesus Christ, and surrounding ourselves with seasoned mature brethren who won't always tell us that we are right, especially when we are wrong. Because the wounds of a friend are faithful Proverbs 27:6.
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2018, 05:19 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
God is patient and long suffering and not willing that any of us perish.

I believe unrepentant sin will send you to hell. but, if we are going on to perfection but stumble, I think God will make a way for us to repent.

Romans 2
2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2018, 06:39 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is online now
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
Hi Bro,

Several things are in play. How long does the process of maturing take? We DO want to emphasize the merciful kindness of Jesus Christ. Let us cleave to him and his mercy.

Also consider Anannias and Saphira. How long were they saved? A month? Two? Probably not more than six anyway. They agreed together to tell a lie. How mature were they?

God killed them. I have heard people many times saying they sin everyday, and there supposed to have been saved for decades. Should these be "mature"? Should they be "perfect"?

They will always say God is still working with me! None of us are perfect!

IS THIS BIBLICAL DISCIPLESHIP?

Did not Jesus say:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Is this supposed to take our entire lifetime? Or is it supposed to happen to us relatively quickly so we can be WITNESSES OF JESUS CHRIST?

Are we his witness if we are continuing in sin? OR when we are overcoming sin?

When we continue sinning we are witnessing of Jesus that we say created millions of galaxies but cannot keep us from sin. GOD FORBID!

If our "Preachers" fill us with the notion we cannot consistently obey God we probably will not be an overcomer.

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 08-04-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2018, 06:53 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
Quote:
If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45.


New converts are called little children, they become young men, and then they ultimately become fathers 1 John 2:12-15. The little children are addressed by John that they sin not, but if they sin they had an advocate with the Father. John isn't talking about seasoned elders, or saints practicing sin, because all that do so is of the devil 1 John 3:8. In the Hellenized Judea referring to someone who was a new student to a teacher of Greek, or Torah. Just like when we were first going to school, we weren't expected to do higher math, or grammarians. There is where grace comes in and covers us as we LEARN. Not as we continue WILLFULLY in sin Psalm 19:13, Romans 6:1-2.
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ALL pastors are hindrances and one should never have a pastor they will only abuse you and you will get hurt. Instead get your instructions from forum gurus that have never built a church.~Steve Epley.

Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 08-04-2018 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:15 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
I believe unrepentant sin will send you to hell. but, if we are going on to perfection but stumble, I think God will make a way for us to repent.
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:25 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Hi Bro,

Several things are in play. How long does the process of maturing take? We DO want to emphasize the merciful kindness of Jesus Christ. Let us cleave to him and his mercy.

Also consider Anannias and Saphira. How long were they saved? A month? Two? Probably not more than six anyway. They agreed together to tell a lie. How mature were they?

God killed them. I have heard people many times saying they sin everyday, and there supposed to have been saved for decades. Should these be "mature"? Should they be "perfect"?

They will always say God is still working with me! None of us are perfect!

IS THIS BIBLICAL DISCIPLESHIP?

Did not Jesus say:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Is this supposed to take our entire lifetime? Or is it supposed to happen to us relatively quickly so we can be WITNESSES OF JESUS CHRIST?

Are we his witness if we are continuing in sin? OR when we are overcoming sin?

When we continue sinning we are witnessing of Jesus that we say created millions of galaxies but cannot keep us from sin. GOD FORBID!

If our "Preachers" fill us with the notion we cannot consistently obey God we probably will not be an overcomer.

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.
Ananias and Sapphira were Hellenized Judeans, who were well educated in Torah. They totally understood what they were doing. They wouldn't be considered as "new converts" in some new religion. Because it was first century Judaism, fulfilled, it had its awaited messiah. Judaism was waiting for a Messiah Isaiah 11:1-9, Isaiah 2:3-4, Micah 4:2-3. correct? So Ananias and Sapphira were waiting for a messiah, and understood why they were selling off property Jeremiah 32:10-15. So they knew better to lie to the Holy Ghost.

The new converts who were clueless until they totally understood were the Romans.
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ALL pastors are hindrances and one should never have a pastor they will only abuse you and you will get hurt. Instead get your instructions from forum gurus that have never built a church.~Steve Epley.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:27 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
What is the difference of "sinned" and "sinning"

Which is which?
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ALL pastors are hindrances and one should never have a pastor they will only abuse you and you will get hurt. Instead get your instructions from forum gurus that have never built a church.~Steve Epley.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:38 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Hi Bro,

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.
There is no doubt that the goal is sinless perfection (1 John 2:1). I do not think people will achieve that in this life (1 John 1:8), though I do believe people can live lives characterized by victory.

I think that, yes, the Father chastens his children; otherwise, we wouldn't be children. But does that mean the child is lost the very moment he or she fails to do or not do something the Father has commanded? In other words, is the child lost--has the Father kicked the child from the Father's house--while the Father is chastising him?

Does the way good, but imperfect, parents deal with their imperfect children give us insight into how the most perfect Father deals his erring children?

"Much better to love and fear God always." Indeed and amen.

I wonder if we all mean the same thing by "sin." It often seems people are thinking of "major" sins of commission, which they of course are not committing, but not of, for example, sins of the attitude or sins of omission. I also wonder if those we live or work with and who are kindly disposed toward us might recognize that we are falling short more often than we might be inclined to think. :-)
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