the question is if the annouced would the guy be alive.
if they got the right address would the guy be alive
the answer to both can be a yes, this is neglegence. there gonna get sued and lose.
the knock and annouce rule doesnt even have to make it to court, the neglegence is the wrong address.
I don't see how though. Like I said, had they knocked down the door that is different. They knocked on the door, he opened it and pointed a gun at them. It's irrelevant that they got the wrong address, so what? They knocked ON the door, they didn't KNOCK IT DOWN.
Its going to come down to that simple fact. Knocked ON or Knocked DOWN. I think you will lose, the cases where neglegence has been proven and lawsuits filed and won all, that I have found so far, are from police knocking down the door and entering the home. That's not what happened.
The only way his hiers can win is if they can prove that he responded to a threatening situation. Which there was no threat, no one broke down his door or entered his home..........all they done was knock on the door.
How would you side on this if it ended up the other way around? What if this man actually got a shot off and killed an officer? What grounds would he have as a defense for firing that shot?
"Well judge, Some officers knocked on my door at 2am so I shot them" , really?
He would not be able to prove, by their actions, that he was being threatened. There for you can't turn it around and justify his actions if he was not being threatened.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
I don't see how though. Like I said, had they knocked down the door that is different. They knocked on the door, he opened it and pointed a gun at them. It's irrelevant that they got the wrong address, so what? They knocked ON the door, they didn't KNOCK IT DOWN.
Its going to come down to that simple fact. Knocked ON or Knocked DOWN. I think you will lose, the cases where neglegence has been proven and lawsuits filed and won all, that I have found so far, are from police knocking down the door and entering the home. That's not what happened.
The only way his hiers can win is if they can prove that he responded to a threatening situation. Which there was no threat, no one broke down his door or entered his home..........all they done was knock on the door.
How would you side on this if it ended up the other way around? What if this man actually got a shot off and killed an officer? What grounds would he have as a defense for firing that shot?
"Well judge, Some officers knocked on my door at 2am so I shot them" , really?
He would not be able to prove, by their actions, that he was being threatened. There for you can't turn it around and justify his actions if he was not being threatened.
questions that will be asked that will determine negligince is simple
if they got the right address would the man be alive today?
if they had clearly announced themselves would the man be alive today?
regardless of breaking the door down or not. The police mest up with the wrong address, it may not be a issue to you but im telling you its a issue.
Some one has to be accountable, a man is dead. (innocent).
let me share a story with you in nashville
a man dressed up as a Cop, had a active light, would pull people over. once he got them pulled over he would mug them at gun point.
This caused such a stir that people when getting pulled over for a minor traffic violation was calling 911 to verify that it was truely a cop pulling them over.
so yes in view of that the man who was probably asleep who was awakened at 2 in the morning could have felt threatned, cause to him why is people knocking at my door?
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
questions that will be asked that will determine negligince is simple
if they got the right address would the man be alive today?
if they had clearly announced themselves would the man be alive today?
regardless of breaking the door down or not. The police mest up with the wrong address, it may not be a issue to you but im telling you its a issue.
Some one has to be accountable, a man is dead. (innocent).
let me share a story with you in nashville
a man dressed up as a Cop, had a active light, would pull people over. once he got them pulled over he would mug them at gun point.
This caused such a stir that people when getting pulled over for a minor traffic violation was calling 911 to verify that it was truely a cop pulling them over.
so yes in view of that the man who was probably asleep who was awakened at 2 in the morning could have felt threatned, cause to him why is people knocking at my door?
And you could also pose the question. If he didnt answer the door with a gun and point it at police would he still be alive?
If it turns out like you say, it will be a huge injustice.
His own actions got him killed, not the actions of the police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
He was standing his ground, right?
Standing his ground against what ? Did he feel his life was threatened ? I don't feel threatened just because someone knocks on my door. I don't answer my door with a gun everytime someone comes a knocking. And whether I have a gun when I answer the door or not, I always look first to see who it is.
I still say play this out in reverse. The police knock on the door, the man opens the door and kill's the cop. Would he be innocent under the stand your ground law ? How and why?
I don't know, I just see the police taking the wrap for another man's stupidity and the only excuse is the police got the address wrong.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Can one of you learned in the law tell us when "knock and announce" is applicable? There has to be situations. Like when an officer comes to your door to ask a question or serve you, he is not required to 'announce'. So what do the circumstances have to be to trigger the 'knock and announce' policy ? Is it triggered if they are just looking for someone ? Does it have to be a "breech" situation before its triggered ?
Then of course we will have to determine what they were there to do. All we know is they knocked on the door looking for a suspect. We don't know if they were there with sledge in hand to breach the home.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
I, for one, am not willing to accept as gospel truth that he pointed his gun at the police. It may be true, but I guess I have seen and heard enough that I know that it is not impossible for officers to embellish when they know they screwed the pooch royally. At this point it is absolutely a matter of self-preservation. People in this case run the risk of not just getting fired, but of being convicted of a serious crime. You might be surprised what people will do to get out of a situation like that.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Why does everyone assume the guy actually had a gun?
"Cause the police - who just shot the wrong guy - said so"...????
Anyway, that little point aside, the guy gets woken up and answers the door with a handgun. He opens the door and it's Johnny Law who blow him away ricki-tick.
REGARDLESS of the wherefores and whys, there are some lessons to be learned.
LESSONS LEARNED from this incident:
1. If someone knocks on your door, ASK WHO IT IS FIRST before opening the door. And VERIFY they are who they say they are.
2. Don't answer the door at O'Dark-thirty.
3. Merely having a handgun is NO GUARANTEE of your safety - proper use requires training and planning.
Can one of you learned in the law tell us when "knock and announce" is applicable? There has to be situations. Like when an officer comes to your door to ask a question or serve you, he is not required to 'announce'. So what do the circumstances have to be to trigger the 'knock and announce' policy ? Is it triggered if they are just looking for someone ? Does it have to be a "breech" situation before its triggered ?
Then of course we will have to determine what they were there to do. All we know is they knocked on the door looking for a suspect. We don't know if they were there with sledge in hand to breach the home.
A person is not required to answer the door, either.
I thought ninja gung-ho night assaults on homeowners were the purview of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia... we're a long way from Mayberry, Andy!
seems like a lawsuit is going to be filed by the family, looking at which way they file it depends on the outcome, one can do civil or federal level, In both cases its a large amount of cash if the lawsuit if proven.
the federal one actually caries more reprocutions for the police if found at fault. possibly meaning a bigger internal investigation.
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