Forgiveness or Remission?

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"Raised from the dead by the Spirit..."

But the BIBLE says:

Colossians 2:12 KJV
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Our "spiritual resurrection" occurs in baptism according to the apostle Paul.

That's REAL "apostolic" doctrine.

Baptism is the normal setting for this to occur in, but it is effected by faith and repentance, not by the ceremony itself.

This passage shows that our spiritual resurrection occurs simultaneously with us being forgiven, being forgiven being obviously necessary in order to come alive since our sin is what made us dead. You can't come alive while what made you dead remains. "13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross."

Whenever you are forgiven you are at the same time given life by the Spirit.

The common Oneness Pentecostal view divides being forgiven from given life by the Spirit into two distinct events that can occur at different times. This verse along with verses in Eph 2 and Rom 6 show that this is incorrect. It's a simultaneous work of the Spirit washing and sanctifying us.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

"Raised from the dead by the Spirit..."

But the BIBLE says:

Colossians 2:12 KJV
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Our "spiritual resurrection" occurs in baptism according to the apostle Paul.

That's REAL "apostolic" doctrine.

That is not what that means

“For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.”
....Colossians‬ ..2‬:..12‬ ..NLT‬

[Esaias]

Since baptism is a burial, we got some here burying "newborn" people!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

That is not what that means

“For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.”
....Colossians‬ ..2‬:..12‬ ..NLT‬

WHEREIN ALSO...

The NLT isn't even a translation.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since baptism is a burial, we got some here burying "newborn" people!

An extremely common view, maybe the view held by the vast majority of Apostolics, is that repentance is dying with Christ, baptism is being buried with Christ, and Spirit baptism with tongues is being raised with Christ (and born of the Spirit). In this scheme, people who have spoken in tongues but who have not been baptized yet are supposedly born of the Spirit and raised with him but still unburied. So we got some here burying "raised" people!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since baptism is a burial, we got some here burying "newborn" people!

Baptism is symbolic. It doesn’t mean that Cornelius was spiritually buried after he was spiritually born. The order is not what is important.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

WHEREIN ALSO...

The NLT isn't even a translation.

It is a better interpretation of the verse than what you where presenting.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The newness of life that we continually walk in is what is representative of Christs resurrection. Baptism symbolizes burial, the putting away of something. Baptism symbolizes the burial but it is the new walk of life that really proves it.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

People that are baptized sometimes observe to the symbolic ordinance without actually experiencing the transformation that it represents to take place.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It is a better interpretation of the verse than what you where presenting.

No wonder you're all messed up in your doctrine.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No wonder you're all messed up in your doctrine.

Yet, you are the one violating apostolic doctrine, by teaching things the apostles clearly did not teach.

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Clear as crystal

[votivesoul]

It is a very inconsistent doctrine that states that one can be forgiven/receive remission of sins prior to water baptism, merely through repentance and/or receiving the Holy Spirit, even to the speaking with other tongues, and yet, have the ability to reject or put off water baptism by personal choice, thereby disobeying a direct command of the Son of God, and His Chosen Emissaries of the Gospel, thereby showing that unless and until such a person gets in the water and is immersed in the name of the Lord Jesus, they still have the sin of rejecting the command of baptism tainting their heart, corrupting their soul, thus proving that the sin of disobedience to the command of Christ and the Apostles to be baptized in water, is and only can be, forgiven/remitted, when the person is immersed/baptized.

It is therefore clear that at least one sin must and only can be forgiven/remitted by baptism: the rejection and putting off of baptism itself!