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Old 10-17-2019, 08:08 PM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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The “City” of Heb. 11:10

Is it not the NT church?
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:19 PM
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews:11:9

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews:11:10

Abraham was not willing to settle down and consider "home" a culture and society made by sinful men and built on a foundation of iniquity and wickedness and idolatry. So he considered himself a stranger and a pilgrim, his expectation was a society built by God, based on God's Word of promise, having eternal (everlasting) foundations in righteousness and Truth: the Kingdom of God.

The new covenant church is the ekklesia or "city hall" if you will of God's Kingdom on this earth. It is the congregation of Jehovah in this world, whose mission is to model and witness the truth to all nations. It is the capital city, the new Jerusalem.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
Is it not the NT church?
Indeed!

Abraham looked for a heavenly country and a city built by God. That's Hebrews 11. The very next chapter is 12, where we read we have come to Mount Zion, and Heavenly Jerusalem. The Heavenly country Abraham trusted for!
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:54 AM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Indeed!

Abraham looked for a heavenly country and a city built by God. That's Hebrews 11. The very next chapter is 12, where we read we have come to Mount Zion, and Heavenly Jerusalem. The Heavenly country Abraham trusted for!


Heb. 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.


How is the NT church a city for them, after they die?



For anyone:

Also, by faith Moses regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

Plz help me understand how Moses knew anything about “for the sake of Christ”, and what reward he was looking for?

Last edited by JamesGlen; 10-20-2019 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:53 AM
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

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Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post


For anyone:

Also, by faith Moses regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

Plz help me understand how Moses knew anything about “for the sake of Christ”, and what reward he was looking for?
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Hebrews:11:24

Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Hebrews:11:25

Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Hebrews:11:26

By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Hebrews:11:27

He valued being an outcast from Egyptian society as being worth it in order to be faithful to God, because he, like all God's people, looked forward to the day when righteousness and life would prevail over sin and death. All that God is, and all of God's Plan for His people, is understood by Paul to be contained and represented by Christ. So that the faith of the Patriarchs is, for him, faith in Christ.

See 1 Cor 10, for example.
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post

Heb. 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

How is the NT church a city for them, after they die?
first of all we have to understand the concept that Jesus Christ is seated in heaven on the throne, and Ephesians chapter 2 verse 6 says that we are seated together with him. Yet we're on the Earth.

So Heaven and Earth are united in a spiritual sense for believers.

Now, a lot are going to disagree with me on this because they believe in Soul-sleep and I don't, but I also believe that those who've gone on to be with the Lord in heaven are in the church as much as we are right now on Earth. The church is not a building, but it's a group of people that have been called out.

The Old Testament saints were said to have not become perfect without us. In other words our covenant and the work of the Cross is what completed them.

Heb 11:40..God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be..made..perfect.

What we have completed what they had under the old Preparatory Covenant. When Jesus Christ actually ascended into heaven and made atonement, he atone for everybody in the Old Testament as well who are faithful to their Covenant. So they became part of the New Testament Church even though they've gone on and are in glory right now. We are all one body.

This verse in Hebrews tells us that Jesus Christ made atonement for those that were in the Old Testament and transgressed under the old Covenant.

Heb 9:15..And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the..transgressions..that were..under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

So, they're as much part of the New Testament Body of Christ as we are. And this heavenly spiritual country is what they're a part of as much as we are. That's what Abraham looked for.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:53 AM
JamesGlen JamesGlen is offline
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Hebrews:11:24

Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Hebrews:11:25

Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Hebrews:11:26

By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Hebrews:11:27

He valued being an outcast from Egyptian society as being worth it in order to be faithful to God, because he, like all God's people, looked forward to the day when righteousness and life would prevail over sin and death. All that God is, and all of God's Plan for His people, is understood by Paul to be contained and represented by Christ. So that the faith of the Patriarchs is, for him, faith in Christ.

See 1 Cor 10, for example.

Thank you.
Please explain this:
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:03 PM
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

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Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
Thank you.
Please explain this:
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
They were redeemed by God and made a covenanted nation to Him via Moses' leadership and ministry. They left Egypt being delivered through the Red Sea which destroyed their enemies releasing them from bondage and were led by the fiery cloudy pillar which was the manifest presence of God. By going through the Red Sea and following the cloudy pillar they became a people separated to God with Moses as their mediator.

In short, the Exodus was a type of new birth. The Red Sea is a type of water baptism and the cloud was a type of the Holy Ghost. Both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost serve as one "baptism into Christ" because they are the mechanism which separates a person from bondage to sin and the old life and places them under the leadership of Christ.

Paul is saying our ancestors were in the old covenant (baptised into Moses) by going through the water and following the manifest presence of God. He goes on to point out that their experiences in the wilderness serve as examples and warnings to their new covenant descendants.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:13 PM
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Re: The “City” of Heb. 11:10

1 Cor 10 says that if their experfience pf baptism in the cloud and sea, that foreshadow Spirit and water baptism, saw them afterward fall to idols and perish in the wilderness, after which their children entered Canaan, then it can happen to people born of water and Spirit today!
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