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Old 05-23-2019, 11:00 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is online now
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Help With The Greek

We have discussed this before but how about one more round? Is what I'm seeing a major breakthrough for Oneness doctrine or nothing?

John 1:1

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

In the Greek Interlinears the last 4 words are Theos en ho logos.

One speaking Greek would pronounce what as the last word of this sentence?

Bible Hub Interlinear:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-1.htm
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:46 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

It is spoken as it is written. The last spoken word in the sentence would be logos.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:12 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
It is spoken as it is written. The last spoken word in the sentence would be logos.
Thanks Scott. Are you the one who lived in Greece or did you study in school? I have been using this translation in discussions with Trinitarians and they always deny it and fall back on the mainstream translation.

I would like to see if others confirm this. It would embolden me to step up the fight for the glorious doctrine of Oneness!
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:57 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Help With The Greek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Thanks Scott. Are you the one who lived in Greece or did you study in school? I have been using this translation in discussions with Trinitarians and they always deny it and fall back on the mainstream translation.

I would like to see if others confirm this. It would embolden me to step up the fight for the glorious doctrine of Oneness!
How would this change your understanding of the oneness doctrine.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:04 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Here is the Latin translation.

http://www.sacredbible.org/studybible/NT-04_John.htm

{1:1} In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum.
{1:1} In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

Here is the Aramaic.

https://www.studylight.org/bible/glt/john/1.html

1 THE Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word.

I would like more input please. I have made this a point in several of my discussion/debates and the Greek reading Trins rip me for it. And yet if this is the more accurate translation I believe it can be a game changer.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:08 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Translating word order from one language to another has nothing to do with theology.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

There is your perfectly acceptable translation of Jn. 1:1. Word order does change when translating.

I took 2 years of Greek language at CLC. Our focus was on grammar and translantion.

I do not see anything special about the wording of the last phrase.

Last edited by Scott Pitta; 05-24-2019 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:09 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

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Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
How would this change your understanding of the oneness doctrine.
In itself alone it does not change but rather CONFIRMS my understanding. I will bring it out here or on another thread once this one gets going. In this beginning stage I'm wanting to be assured that I can stand on this against the scholarly Trinitarian community.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:14 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Translating word order from one language to another has nothing to do with theology.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

There is your perfectly acceptable translation of Jn. 1:1. Word order does change when translating.

I took 2 years of Greek language at CLC. Our focus was on grammar and translantion.
Ok I am hit with "word order" by the Trins.

The key for me is how it is written and spoken IN THE GREEK.

Lets forget translating it into English for now. If indeed the Greek was the original thats whats more important.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:25 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Proving theological intent by word order does not seem plausible.

If one does try it, please provide examples of the same word order with the same theological intent from the same author.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:37 AM
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Re: Help With The Greek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Proving theological intent by word order does not seem plausible.

If one does try it, please provide examples of the same word order with the same theological intent from the same author.
Ok in post 2 you said:

Quote:
It is spoken as it is written. The last spoken word in the sentence would be logos.
In my video on "Modalism" I begin an explanation on why this is important. It would be good to start at the beginning but if one cant the heart of the matter begins at about 7 minutes in.

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