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  #51  
Old 09-27-2008, 02:50 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

The Old Paths,

I have heard people talk about something to the affect that the salvation experiences in Acts don't all agree and they don't have to because you don't have to repeat every little detail....

I never grasped what they were talking about.


I ask you, was the Phillipian jailer saved? Was the Ethiopian eunuch saved?

After Acts 2:38, and all those folks who believed and were added to the church, the Bible doesn't state that they spoke in tongues.

In I Co when Paul asks the question, "Do all speak in tongues?" I have heard many state he was referring to the gift of tongues. But if that was the case, why didn't he make that distinction clearly? To the question, "Do all speak in tongues" the answer would be yes-- but from the scripture, one can gather the answer is "No", for Paul's purpose.

Another thing about speaking in tongues is that it is not the person speaking that's doing it anyway-- it's the Lord (supposed to be).

So if the Lord just doesn't allow someone to speak in tongues, they're lost?


I have read your posts and will read them again. One thing that comes to mind is with Abraham. The Bible speaks that Abraham was justified by faith before he took part in the circumcision covenant.

The NT comparison for circumcision would be water baptism. The believer comes into a covenant relationship with the Lord by faith and then to certify that covenant, the believer gets baptized.
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  #52  
Old 09-27-2008, 11:03 PM
theoldpaths theoldpaths is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
The Old Paths,

I have heard people talk about something to the affect that the salvation experiences in Acts don't all agree and they don't have to because you don't have to repeat every little detail....

I never grasped what they were talking about.

I ask you, was the Phillipian jailer saved? Was the Ethiopian eunuch saved?

After Acts 2:38, and all those folks who believed and were added to the church, the Bible doesn't state that they spoke in tongues.

In I Co when Paul asks the question, "Do all speak in tongues?" I have heard many state he was referring to the gift of tongues. But if that was the case, why didn't he make that distinction clearly? To the question, "Do all speak in tongues" the answer would be yes-- but from the scripture, one can gather the answer is "No", for Paul's purpose.

Another thing about speaking in tongues is that it is not the person speaking that's doing it anyway-- it's the Lord (supposed to be).

So if the Lord just doesn't allow someone to speak in tongues, they're lost?

I have read your posts and will read them again. One thing that comes to mind is with Abraham. The Bible speaks that Abraham was justified by faith before he took part in the circumcision covenant.

The NT comparison for circumcision would be water baptism. The believer comes into a covenant relationship with the Lord by faith and then to certify that covenant, the believer gets baptized.
I ask you, was the Phillipian jailer saved? Was the Ethiopian eunuch saved?


Yes I believe they were both saved. The scriptures teach that they were baptized. I believe that means they were baptized in water AND in the Spirit.

Here is the reason why I believe that...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Now if the above had stopped at "And were all baptized unto Moses" and it didn't say anything after that, then how many baptisms would you have thought Paul was speaking of? Only 1 right, in the red sea; but we know he was speaking of 2. Therefore the baptism of Moses or being baptized unto Moses INCLUDED both being baptized in water and in the Spirit. In the NT we are baptized into/unto Christ and we know that baptisms - PLURAL - water and the Spirit - are part of the foundational principles of the doctrine of Christ.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Therefore, when we read Acts 2:36-41, we see:

- the convicted, hearers asked what what they should do
- Peter told them what to do which included baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit - 2 baptisms
- in v. 41, it says that those who gladly rec'd his word were baptized and the same day was added unto them 3000 souls

So since he told them to repent and get baptized in water and the Spirit and the scripture says that those who rec'd his words (which included to repent and get baptized in the water and in the Spirit) were baptized, then I tend to believe that them getting baptized included being baptized in water and the Spirit.

Acts 1:8 identified the 3 major categories of people they were to be witnesses to - the Jews, Samaritans, and the Gentiles. When we examine the conversions of these 3 groups of people in the book of Acts, we see that the Gentiles were baptized in water and the Spirit in Acts 10, the Samaritans were baptized in water and in the Spirit in Acts 8, and we see Peter telling the Jews to be baptized in water and in the Spirit. In addition, we see the disciples of John in Acts 19 being baptized in the water and the Spirit. Hence the only conclusion is that the Jews in Acts 2 were also baptized in the water and in the Spirit even though it only mentions that they were baptized.

Acts also mentions the Corinthians being baptized but we know later from the epistle to the Corinthians that they also spoke with tongues even though in Acts it does not specifically mention that they did.

Now concerning Paul in 1 Cor 12-14 teaching on spiritual gifts, the bible shows that there are 2 different tongues.

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Jude 1:20 - But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Tongues whose destination is to God are not for men and therefore are not interpreted for men and is for personal edification. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is part of being born again of the water and of the Spirit and is personal as it is part of one's personal salvation.

Now here is the other tongue...

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Tongues that are interpreted are not for God, but it is for men - that is why it is interpreted that they church may receive edifying.

1 tongue is for personal edification and can be done in private when one is all alone - the other is for the edification of others and is done in a public meeting usually when the church is assembled for the edification of the body.

Concerning context, 1 Cor 12-14 starts off in chapter 12...

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

The context is that Paul is writing to the church of Corinth, people already born again of the water and of the Spirit and he was speaking to them of spiritual gifts which are given by God to those ALREADY in the body.

When someone who is truly baptized with the Holy Ghost of God, they will speak in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them the utterance; however, the spirit of the prophet is subject unto the prophet. Meaning God is a gentle man and will not force you to do something that you are not willing and yielding yourself to Him to do. A person can quench the Spirit of God and a man can grieve the Spirit of God.

As I've taught by the word of God in my previous posts, the INITIAL evidence that one has been baptized with the Holy Ghost is that they will speak with other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Please read my other posts in this thread for scriptural teaching on that.

God bless.
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Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
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  #53  
Old 09-28-2008, 06:02 AM
Brother Price Brother Price is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Having backslid into the trinity doctrine, I cannot imagine how one could justify being Oneness and going to a trinity church. The Spirit being poured out to them is trying to lead them into the truth, not to encourage them. No, brother, find you an Apostolic Church even if you have to sacrifice and drive several miles to get there.
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  #54  
Old 09-28-2008, 09:06 AM
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TRFrance TRFrance is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
In I Co when Paul asks the question, "Do all speak in tongues?" I have heard many state he was referring to the gift of tongues. But if that was the case, why didn't he make that distinction clearly? To the question, "Do all speak in tongues" the answer would be yes-- but from the scripture, one can gather the answer is "No", for Paul's purpose.
Come on now, Mike. Look at the context, brother.
That's actually an easy one.

The entire chapter
is dealing with spiritual gifts, so what "distinction" does Paul have to make there? (Just look at verse one of that chapter: "now concerning spiritual gifts, I would not have you ignorant" 1 Cor 12:1)

He was talking to the church, people who were already born again of water and spirit. In this passage he's talking about gifts of the spirit [not the baptism of the holy spirit], and he makes that known from the very beginning of the chapter. That much is abundantly clear.
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Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.

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  #55  
Old 09-29-2008, 12:50 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
Come on now, Mike. Look at the context, brother.
That's actually an easy one.

The entire chapter
is dealing with spiritual gifts, so what "distinction" does Paul have to make there? (Just look at verse one of that chapter: "now concerning spiritual gifts, I would not have you ignorant" 1 Cor 12:1)

He was talking to the church, people who were already born again of water and spirit. In this passage he's talking about gifts of the spirit [not the baptism of the holy spirit], and he makes that known from the very beginning of the chapter. That much is abundantly clear.
Thanks for your response and for remembering my name. That was cool!
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  #56  
Old 09-29-2008, 12:51 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths View Post
I ask you, was the Phillipian jailer saved? Was the Ethiopian eunuch saved?


Yes I believe they were both saved. The scriptures teach that they were baptized. I believe that means they were baptized in water AND in the Spirit.

Here is the reason why I believe that...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Now if the above had stopped at "And were all baptized unto Moses" and it didn't say anything after that, then how many baptisms would you have thought Paul was speaking of? Only 1 right, in the red sea; but we know he was speaking of 2. Therefore the baptism of Moses or being baptized unto Moses INCLUDED both being baptized in water and in the Spirit. In the NT we are baptized into/unto Christ and we know that baptisms - PLURAL - water and the Spirit - are part of the foundational principles of the doctrine of Christ.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Therefore, when we read Acts 2:36-41, we see:

- the convicted, hearers asked what what they should do
- Peter told them what to do which included baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit - 2 baptisms
- in v. 41, it says that those who gladly rec'd his word were baptized and the same day was added unto them 3000 souls

So since he told them to repent and get baptized in water and the Spirit and the scripture says that those who rec'd his words (which included to repent and get baptized in the water and in the Spirit) were baptized, then I tend to believe that them getting baptized included being baptized in water and the Spirit.

Acts 1:8 identified the 3 major categories of people they were to be witnesses to - the Jews, Samaritans, and the Gentiles. When we examine the conversions of these 3 groups of people in the book of Acts, we see that the Gentiles were baptized in water and the Spirit in Acts 10, the Samaritans were baptized in water and in the Spirit in Acts 8, and we see Peter telling the Jews to be baptized in water and in the Spirit. In addition, we see the disciples of John in Acts 19 being baptized in the water and the Spirit. Hence the only conclusion is that the Jews in Acts 2 were also baptized in the water and in the Spirit even though it only mentions that they were baptized.

Acts also mentions the Corinthians being baptized but we know later from the epistle to the Corinthians that they also spoke with tongues even though in Acts it does not specifically mention that they did.

Now concerning Paul in 1 Cor 12-14 teaching on spiritual gifts, the bible shows that there are 2 different tongues.

1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Jude 1:20 - But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Tongues whose destination is to God are not for men and therefore are not interpreted for men and is for personal edification. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is part of being born again of the water and of the Spirit and is personal as it is part of one's personal salvation.

Now here is the other tongue...

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Tongues that are interpreted are not for God, but it is for men - that is why it is interpreted that they church may receive edifying.

1 tongue is for personal edification and can be done in private when one is all alone - the other is for the edification of others and is done in a public meeting usually when the church is assembled for the edification of the body.

Concerning context, 1 Cor 12-14 starts off in chapter 12...

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

The context is that Paul is writing to the church of Corinth, people already born again of the water and of the Spirit and he was speaking to them of spiritual gifts which are given by God to those ALREADY in the body.

When someone who is truly baptized with the Holy Ghost of God, they will speak in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them the utterance; however, the spirit of the prophet is subject unto the prophet. Meaning God is a gentle man and will not force you to do something that you are not willing and yielding yourself to Him to do. A person can quench the Spirit of God and a man can grieve the Spirit of God.

As I've taught by the word of God in my previous posts, the INITIAL evidence that one has been baptized with the Holy Ghost is that they will speak with other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Please read my other posts in this thread for scriptural teaching on that.

God bless.
God bless you too, The Old Paths. Thanks for your response.
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  #57  
Old 09-29-2008, 08:53 PM
theoldpaths theoldpaths is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
God bless you too, The Old Paths. Thanks for your response.
Your welcome and God bless you.
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Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
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  #58  
Old 10-03-2008, 04:29 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

For the record, I have joined Carter Memorial COGIC.

I think this is the right decision for me, for now.

I appreciate every one who has prayed with me concerning this decision. I appreciate all of the advice and patience.


1399
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  #59  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:39 AM
Brother Price Brother Price is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
For the record, I have joined Carter Memorial COGIC.

I think this is the right decision for me, for now.

I appreciate every one who has prayed with me concerning this decision. I appreciate all of the advice and patience.


1399
1399, please reconsider. The trinity church will not keep you Oneness. They will mislead you and try to bring you down and deny Bible truths. Those you hang around with influence you. I beg you, for eternity's sake, reconsider.
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  #60  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:59 AM
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TRFrance TRFrance is offline
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Re: COGIC - Baptism in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1399 View Post
For the record, I have joined Carter Memorial COGIC.

I think this is the right decision for me, for now.

I appreciate every one who has prayed with me concerning this decision. I appreciate all of the advice and patience.


1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Price View Post
1399, please reconsider. The trinity church will not keep you Oneness. They will mislead you and try to bring you down and deny Bible truths. Those you hang around with influence you. I beg you, for eternity's sake, reconsider.
Bro Mike,

Many of us can speak to you on this in terms of doctrine and theory, but I think Bro Price has more first hand experience with this type of issue than most of us on this forum. I think you would do well to listen to what he has to say on the matter.
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I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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