Maga!! Yeehaw!!

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 17:7, Deuteronomy 17:12, Deuteronomy 21:21, Deuteronomy 22:21, and Judges 20:13.

Interpreted by Jesus in Matthew 18:17?

Yes, no, maybe?

Loving people at the expense of what we actually believe is two different things.

Love the person hate the sin.

I can give hypotheticals but there is no skin in the game with a hypothetical.

So, how did the early church deal with the issue of homsexuals in the chruch? Did they wait for them to get an epiphany?

The church was commanded to restore those in love who fell into sin and if they did NOT repent they were to kick them out of the church.


1st Corinthians is a major example of someone in gross sin being thrown out of the church "deliver them over to Satan" so that their soul may be saved once they come to repentence.


Now 2nd Corinthians Paul writes again to the church to let the same guy they kicked out referenced in the 1st Epistle back in because he REPENTED...they didnt wanna let him back in.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

The church was commanded to restore those in love who fell into sin and if they did NOT repent they were to kick them out of the church.


1st Corinthians is a major example of someone in gross sin being thrown out of the church "deliver them over to Satan" so that their soul may be saved once they come to repentence.


Now 2nd Corinthians Paul writes again to the church to let the same guy they kicked out referenced in the 1st Epistle back in because he REPENTED...they didnt wanna let him back in.

Yes, they don't love someone to their own hurt. Love actually had strong boundaries. The Nicer Than Jesus mentality which we have in American Churchanity is very problematic. We have to understand that the early church model is based on doctrinal purity. Meaning that Jesus came on the scene straightening out false doctrine which was prevalent. Jesus' arguments were with the religious, and He focused on helping out the spiritually and culturally ill. He didn't focus on Gentiles, because that isn't where His ministry was pointed towards. He did acknowledge that the Gentiles had great faith that surpassed His own Israeli tribal groups. Judea was in pretty bad shape by the time Jesus appeared in His culture. They were majorly influenced by the Gentile empires who fought over her. She changed her language a few times. She modified her religion to the point that she was rife with schisms, and prophets by the bag full. Jesus comes to straighten out the confusion to a people who were tripping over messiahs on every street. the Apostle Paul therefore carried on this idea of religious purity. Jesus and Paul brought forth the ideology to stay on task, with doctrines which create fruit. Cut off all those who won't do the heavy lifting with you. Meaning while you are moving the coach it is made easier if the person who is helping you is actually carrying. Not, sitting on the ach while you are dragging it happily.

We really don't have a love the sinner but hate the sin practice in the New Testament. Why don't we have the example of homosexaul toleration in the New Teaatement or even Old Testament? Because it was mainly practiced among the ruling elite in the Gentile world. But even in Rome it was frowned upon. In Greece it was among ruling elite at the final death throws of their empire. Among the rank and file it was hugely disparaged. So, to have Early New Testament teachers harping on it, very little, Romans 1:27. Still, they would of showed the door to anyone actively engaging in homosexuality.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 17:7, Deuteronomy 17:12, Deuteronomy 21:21, Deuteronomy 22:21, and Judges 20:13.

Interpreted by Jesus in Matthew 18:17?

Yes, no, maybe?

Loving people at the expense of what we actually believe is two different things.

Love the person hate the sin.

I can give hypotheticals but there is no skin in the game with a hypothetical.

So, how did the early church deal with the issue of homosexuals in the church? Did they wait for them to get an epiphany?

Very good questions and thought provoking! I liked jediwill's comments. Typical of the prodigal son's brother.

I need a little time to think about it. I am working for a design company and was up late trying to work out some programming, taking breaks, and now I have to get back with my company and finish up, hopefully, by early afternoon. Pray we iron out this little glitch before Monday!

I will get back with you on this later.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, they don't love someone to their own hurt. Love actually had strong boundaries. The Nicer Than Jesus mentality which we have in American Churchanity is very problematic. We have to understand that the early church model is based on doctrinal purity. Meaning that Jesus came on the scene straightening out false doctrine which was prevalent. Jesus' arguments were with the religious, and He focused on helping out the spiritually and culturally ill. He didn't focus on Gentiles, because that isn't where His ministry was pointed towards. He did acknowledge that the Gentiles had great faith that surpassed His own Israeli tribal groups. Judea was in pretty bad shape by the time Jesus appeared in His culture. They were majorly influenced by the Gentile empires who fought over her. She changed her language a few times. She modified her religion to the point that she was rife with schisms, and prophets by the bag full. Jesus comes to straighten out the confusion to a people who were tripping over messiahs on every street. the Apostle Paul therefore carried on this idea of religious purity. Jesus and Paul brought forth the ideology to stay on task, with doctrines which create fruit. Cut off all those who won't do the heavy lifting with you. Meaning while you are moving the coach it is made easier if the person who is helping you is actually carrying. Not, sitting on the ach while you are dragging it happily.

We really don't have a love the sinner but hate the sin practice in the New Testament. Why don't we have the example of homosexaul toleration in the New Teaatement or even Old Testament? Because it was mainly practiced among the ruling elite in the Gentile world. But even in Rome it was frowned upon. In Greece it was among ruling elite at the final death throws of their empire. Among the rank and file it was hugely disparaged. So, to have Early New Testament teachers harping on it, very little, Romans 1:27. Still, they would of showed the door to anyone actively engaging in homosexuality.

"Such WERE some of you BUT..."


Paul did not make that list showing what was currently acceptable for people to be engaged in...he was showing that they were washed from that mess...it wasn't currently being participated in and it was in the past.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

"Such WERE some of you BUT..."


Paul did not make that list showing what was currently acceptable for people to be engaged in...he was showing that they were washed from that mess...it wasn't currently being participated in and it was in the past.

Amen, and therefore they were hard against sin of any kind in the communities which built up the early church. On the other hand in the marketed user friendly Churchanity we are told that we are sinners and will continually sin no matter what. We are told that we can't help ourselves. Therefore we end up with churches which are motivated in "Don't Worry, Be Happy" Churchanity. Hey, it is just about numbers, in any religion it is just about a crowd. No matter what that crowd is comprised. We eventually end up with maintaining that group through nice feel good sound bites. Keep them hopeful, keep them encouraged to press on, even while they are actively sinning more in the church then when they were out of the church.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Very good questions and thought provoking! I liked jediwill's comments. Typical of the prodigal son's brother.

I need a little time to think about it. I am working for a design company and was up late trying to work out some programming, taking breaks, and now I have to get back with my company and finish up, hopefully, by early afternoon. Pray we iron out this little glitch before Monday!

I will get back with you on this later.

Until later

[Evang.Benincasa]

Make the Church Wakanda Again!

[Evang.Benincasa]

It is all a domino effect. When looking into the history of religion, (not just Christianity) it morphs into what the people WANT. Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity in the United States would be unrecognizable to their founders. Yet, if we go around the world we see that these religions get modified to some degree. All so that they are user friendly to the people. Yes, I know, we have purests who yearn for the earliest forms of their religion. They pour over the holy texts in order to find out how the early believers practiced. Yet, what we end up with are those who go far beyond what what was done originally. Or those who believe that the religion is supposed to evolve as time goes on. But in the end (because of no checks and balances) we end up with a freak. But, everyman's burden is the heaviest, we tend to see our perception as the correct one. Therefore checks and balances with strong accountability is a must. People who are around to tell us that we are wrong. People to tell us that what we believe may not be found in the pages of the our particular holy book. yes, I know that it is painful, just like it was when we wanted to stay up late with the adults, or listen into their discussions (especially when they wanted us to go in the other room) No one wants to be told their wrong, or that what they believe is a pile of garbage. But, when that happens we go to those who will agree with us. Then factions crop up. Jesus and Paul pointed out what was wrong with the religion of their day. That didn't win them praise of other religious. That just got them in trouble. Yet, what we have today is more Pauls and Messiahs then you could shake a stick at. Why? Because we are at the final outcome of what came before us in this country. There was a time in this country that when someone fell asleep in church they would whack you on the head with a log stick. No one went wee wee wee all the way home. They understood what the clergy wanted, and the CONGREGATION expected. Emphasis on congregation. Not clergy, because the clergy isn't really supported by the congregation as in times past. Now they have to plead, beg, coercion, make nice nice, until everyone fanes churchisms. Yet, all that seeps into the population around them. Then it morphs into Nicer Than Jesus SJWs who believe that the religion which proceeded them was too harsh, and therefore needs to be reformed. yet, that reformation ends up looking like Moses David Berg and His Circus from Hell.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Make Jussie Smollett Honest Again.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I remember Tawana Brawley.

It created Al Sharpton.

Make America Sane Again