Generational Curses?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother Esaias,
This thread is suppose to answer the question about the father and son suffering from depression and then both tragically committing suicide. Really there is no way in my opinion to answer a question like this without having the spirit realm brought up. Im not trying to hurt you or damage you in anyway, or any others in this forum for that matter, yet like you and others here we get passionate about our beliefs. Im not here to debate you, Paul says thats a work of the flesh (Romans 1:29) I guess I owe you a explanation of what and why I believe, that way you'll know how I'm going to answer some of the things I write about in future threads.
(Jeremiah 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all things...) to me thats saying the heart is more wicked than the satan himself. We cannot follow our heart in anything, we need to follow the spirit. (Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.) The carnal mind will never take heed to the things spiritual, and with that I believe is why the church is in the state it is in.
In one of your posts you mentioned Paul and some of the church problems in Corinth. Paul was in prison writing to the church, if you compare that to the evangelist Paul in the book of Acts its quite different. Acts 16:18, Paul didn't talk to the girl he talked to the spirit, for a side note the Bible says "HE" came out of her. In Acts 19 the spirit spoke to the men that tried to cast it out and Said Jesus I know and Paul I know, the spirits know who has authority and apparently Paul used that God given authority to use, even though I can't given you scripture and verse for every spirit he casted out, he believed in that realm.
Look at the ministry of Jesus, how many scriptures can I give to you that mentions the spirits he casted out, the spirits would tell them there names, spirits caused physical deformities,the spirits tried to kill the souls they possess (sounds like the question in this thread), they would even shut the mouth and the ears of their habitation. Who's more radical the times of Jesus or now? If I would've told you that so and so's deafness is caused by a spirit you would've done more than just mock me with (Sceva Deliverance Ministry) but Jesus encountered it, why haven't we? The 70 came back and said "even the devils are subjected unto us" (Luke 10:17) You mentioned that we need chapter and verse for everything we do, and I agree with you, yet where did Jesus get the knowledge of (Matthew 12:43) When the unclean spirit goes out of a man? The spirit realm is the mind of God, he imparted to us that knowledge so we know where our fight is coming from, we have discerning of spirits so we know how to use the armor of God. I can name to you 30 classification of Spirits from the word. I can also give you spiritual realm verses from the Old Testament, its real and its more than what we have been taught. I believe in Deliverance Ministry, its very much needed, please don't take this the wrong way, but a soul possessed or oppressed by another spirit needs more than just repentance, they need deliverance, how many times have we missed to help the way they needed because I was too carnally minded. Spirits network with other spirits, if you have a spirit of witchcraft, you'll have a spirit of fear, you have a spirit of rebellion etc.. I know that from what Jesus said about how another spirit will recruit others to help possess or oppress that individual. Monterrey is correct on open doors, we ask about that because Jesus did! He asked the man, "how long has he been like this" the man answered as a child, Jesus knew yet for our admonition he asked. We need to know when the open door was, thats part of praying a soul through to deliverance and allowing that gate to stay closed. Jesus said the enemy came in while men slept. in the spirit we sleep and were not watching and praying spirits come in and the devil himself can be turned into an angel of light, (we see that in the time of Job) we have no discernment, we have problems in the church and were seeking physical solutions to spiritual problems. Think about it...

I appreciate your response, and the spirit (!) in which it was posted.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean in noting that Paul wrote to the Corinthians while in prison? I'm not certain he was in prison when he wrote that epistle? What is the difference between what we see in Acts (which included the time in which he founded, ministered to, and wrote to the church in Corinth) and his letter to the Corinthians? I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

And, yes, he did indeed cast out a spirit of divination. I wholeheartedly believe people were, can be, and are today possessed by demons. I do however notice that he simply cast the demon out, and did not get involved in counselling her about past traumas, a bad childhood, or "opening doors".

I do not at all deny the spiritual realm. I just think you and I have may have some slightly different understandings as to what all is involved in the spiritual realm. So I think we are sort of talking past each other in some ways, not fully understanding what each other is saying. For example, you mentioned we have problems in the church and are seeking physical answers instead of spiritual. Let me show you something to help you better understand what I'm trying to get at:

In Romans chapter 8, Paul talks about the difference between a carnal, fleshly mind, and a spiritual mind. In verses 4-9 he identifies the key distinction between the two: submission to and obedience to the law of God. So I read that and I think "A carnal solution to church problems would be a solution NOT based on and found in God's Word, something like pop psychology or worldly ways of addressing things. But a spiritual solution involves going to the Word and putting it into practice, led by the Holy Ghost into true genuine obedience to the commandments of God."

In other words, an adulterer is told to repent and get right with Jesus. THAT is a spiritual solution to his problem. A church that has adultery in its midst? The spiritual solution involves Biblical church discipline of the offenders (like in 1 Cor 5). A carnal solution to either scenarios might focus instead on "counselling" from worldly psychology, or even just tolerating the sin by just preaching against it instead of actually doing what scripture says to do about it (warn, then excommunicate and shun the unrepentant). A spiritual solution recognises that an unrepentant sinner cannot obey God, they need to be converted and be filled with the Spirit of Christ, or else be put out of the church.

So I do not see in Scripture that spirituality is limited to just dealing with and casting out demons and such. It goes way deeper than that. And I think a lot of the problems we have in the movement are due to not fully understanding the depths of the subject as revealed in Scripture.

For example, curses are real. But they aren't just about some goofball sticking pins in a doll trying to "hex" somebody. Curses stream out across the land every hour from the main stream media, Hellyweird, the so called news, out from the podiums of politicians, printed in the newspapers, etc. People do not recognise them, and therefore don't know the solution, because they do not understand Biblically how curses work, and what they are.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother Esaias,
This thread is suppose to answer the question about the father and son suffering from depression and then both tragically committing suicide. Really there is no way in my opinion to answer a question like this without having the spirit realm brought up. Im not trying to hurt you or damage you in anyway, or any others in this forum for that matter, yet like you and others here we get passionate about our beliefs. Im not here to debate you, Paul says thats a work of the flesh (Romans 1:29) I guess I owe you a explanation of what and why I believe, that way you'll know how I'm going to answer some of the things I write about in future threads.
(Jeremiah 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all things...) to me thats saying the heart is more wicked than the satan himself. We cannot follow our heart in anything, we need to follow the spirit. (Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.) The carnal mind will never take heed to the things spiritual, and with that I believe is why the church is in the state it is in.
In one of your posts you mentioned Paul and some of the church problems in Corinth. Paul was in prison writing to the church, if you compare that to the evangelist Paul in the book of Acts its quite different. Acts 16:18, Paul didn't talk to the girl he talked to the spirit, for a side note the Bible says "HE" came out of her. In Acts 19 the spirit spoke to the men that tried to cast it out and Said Jesus I know and Paul I know, the spirits know who has authority and apparently Paul used that God given authority to use, even though I can't given you scripture and verse for every spirit he casted out, he believed in that realm.
Look at the ministry of Jesus, how many scriptures can I give to you that mentions the spirits he casted out, the spirits would tell them there names, spirits caused physical deformities,the spirits tried to kill the souls they possess (sounds like the question in this thread), they would even shut the mouth and the ears of their habitation. Who's more radical the times of Jesus or now? If I would've told you that so and so's deafness is caused by a spirit you would've done more than just mock me with (Sceva Deliverance Ministry) but Jesus encountered it, why haven't we? The 70 came back and said "even the devils are subjected unto us" (Luke 10:17) You mentioned that we need chapter and verse for everything we do, and I agree with you, yet where did Jesus get the knowledge of (Matthew 12:43) When the unclean spirit goes out of a man? The spirit realm is the mind of God, he imparted to us that knowledge so we know where our fight is coming from, we have discerning of spirits so we know how to use the armor of God. I can name to you 30 classification of Spirits from the word. I can also give you spiritual realm verses from the Old Testament, its real and its more than what we have been taught. I believe in Deliverance Ministry, its very much needed, please don't take this the wrong way, but a soul possessed or oppressed by another spirit needs more than just repentance, they need deliverance, how many times have we missed to help the way they needed because I was too carnally minded. Spirits network with other spirits, if you have a spirit of witchcraft, you'll have a spirit of fear, you have a spirit of rebellion etc.. I know that from what Jesus said about how another spirit will recruit others to help possess or oppress that individual. Monterrey is correct on open doors, we ask about that because Jesus did! He asked the man, "how long has he been like this" the man answered as a child, Jesus knew yet for our admonition he asked. We need to know when the open door was, thats part of praying a soul through to deliverance and allowing that gate to stay closed. Jesus said the enemy came in while men slept. in the spirit we sleep and were not watching and praying spirits come in and the devil himself can be turned into an angel of light, (we see that in the time of Job) we have no discernment, we have problems in the church and were seeking physical solutions to spiritual problems. Think about it...

I appreciate your response, and the spirit (!) in which it was posted.

I'm not quite understanding what we you mean in noting that Paul wrote to the Corinthians while in prison? I'm not certain he was in prison when he wrote that epistle? What is the difference between what we see in Acts (which included the time in which he founded, ministered to, and wrote to the church in Corinth) and his letter to the Corinthians? I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

And, yes, he did indeed cast out a spirit of divination. I wholeheartedly believe people were, can be, and are today possessed by demons. I do however notice that he simply cast the demon out, and did not get involved in counselling her about past traumas, a bad childhood, or "opening doors".

I do not at all deny the spiritual realm. I just think you and I have may have some slightly different understandings as to what all is involved in the spiritual realm. So I think we are sort of talking past each other in some ways, not fully understanding what each other is saying. For example, you mentioned we have problems in the church and are seeking physical answers instead of spiritual. Let me show you something to help you better understand what I'm trying to get at:

In Romans chapter 8, Paul talks about the difference between a carnal, fleshly mind, and a spiritual mind. In verses 4-9 he identifies the key distinction between the two: submission to and obedience to the law of God. So I read that and I think "A carnal solution to church problems would be a solution NOT based on and found in God's Word, something like pop psychology or worldly ways of addressing things. But a spiritual solution involves going to the Word and putting it into practice, led by the Holy Ghost into true genuine obedience to the commandments of God."

In other words, an adulterer is told to repent and get right with Jesus. THAT is a spiritual solution to his problem. A church that has adultery in its midst? The spiritual solution involves Biblical church discipline of the offenders (like in 1 Cor 5). A carnal solution to either scenarios might focus instead on "counselling" from worldly psychology, or even just tolerating the sin by just preaching against it instead of actually doing what scripture says to do about it (warn, then excommunicate and shun the unrepentant). A spiritual solution recognises that an unrepentant sinner cannot obey God, they need to be converted and be filled with the Spirit of Christ, or else be put out of the church.

So I do not see in Scripture that spirituality is limited to just dealing with and casting out demons and such. It goes way deeper than that. And I think a lot of the problems we have in the movement are due to not fully understanding the depths of the subject as revealed in Scripture.

For example, curses are real. But they aren't just about some goofball sticking pins in a doll trying to "hex" somebody. Curses stream out across the land every hour from the main stream media, Hellyweird, the so called news, out from the podiums of politicians, printed in the newspapers, etc. People do not recognise them, and therefore don't know the solution, because they do not understand Biblically how curses work, and what they are.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother Esaias,
This thread is suppose to answer the question about the father and son suffering from depression and then both tragically committing suicide. Really there is no way in my opinion to answer a question like this without having the spirit realm brought up. Im not trying to hurt you or damage you in anyway, or any others in this forum for that matter, yet like you and others here we get passionate about our beliefs. Im not here to debate you, Paul says thats a work of the flesh (Romans 1:29) I guess I owe you a explanation of what and why I believe, that way you'll know how I'm going to answer some of the things I write about in future threads.
(Jeremiah 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all things...) to me thats saying the heart is more wicked than the satan himself. We cannot follow our heart in anything, we need to follow the spirit. (Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.) The carnal mind will never take heed to the things spiritual, and with that I believe is why the church is in the state it is in.
In one of your posts you mentioned Paul and some of the church problems in Corinth. Paul was in prison writing to the church, if you compare that to the evangelist Paul in the book of Acts its quite different. Acts 16:18, Paul didn't talk to the girl he talked to the spirit, for a side note the Bible says "HE" came out of her. In Acts 19 the spirit spoke to the men that tried to cast it out and Said Jesus I know and Paul I know, the spirits know who has authority and apparently Paul used that God given authority to use, even though I can't given you scripture and verse for every spirit he casted out, he believed in that realm.
Look at the ministry of Jesus, how many scriptures can I give to you that mentions the spirits he casted out, the spirits would tell them there names, spirits caused physical deformities,the spirits tried to kill the souls they possess (sounds like the question in this thread), they would even shut the mouth and the ears of their habitation. Who's more radical the times of Jesus or now? If I would've told you that so and so's deafness is caused by a spirit you would've done more than just mock me with (Sceva Deliverance Ministry) but Jesus encountered it, why haven't we? The 70 came back and said "even the devils are subjected unto us" (Luke 10:17) You mentioned that we need chapter and verse for everything we do, and I agree with you, yet where did Jesus get the knowledge of (Matthew 12:43) When the unclean spirit goes out of a man? The spirit realm is the mind of God, he imparted to us that knowledge so we know where our fight is coming from, we have discerning of spirits so we know how to use the armor of God. I can name to you 30 classification of Spirits from the word. I can also give you spiritual realm verses from the Old Testament, its real and its more than what we have been taught. I believe in Deliverance Ministry, its very much needed, please don't take this the wrong way, but a soul possessed or oppressed by another spirit needs more than just repentance, they need deliverance, how many times have we missed to help the way they needed because I was too carnally minded. Spirits network with other spirits, if you have a spirit of witchcraft, you'll have a spirit of fear, you have a spirit of rebellion etc.. I know that from what Jesus said about how another spirit will recruit others to help possess or oppress that individual. Monterrey is correct on open doors, we ask about that because Jesus did! He asked the man, "how long has he been like this" the man answered as a child, Jesus knew yet for our admonition he asked. We need to know when the open door was, thats part of praying a soul through to deliverance and allowing that gate to stay closed. Jesus said the enemy came in while men slept. in the spirit we sleep and were not watching and praying spirits come in and the devil himself can be turned into an angel of light, (we see that in the time of Job) we have no discernment, we have problems in the church and were seeking physical solutions to spiritual problems. Think about it...

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I appreciate your response, and the spirit (!) in which it was posted.

I'm not quite understanding what we you mean in noting that Paul wrote to the Corinthians while in prison? I'm not certain he was in prison when he wrote that epistle? What is the difference between what we see in Acts (which included the time in which he founded, ministered to, and wrote to the church in Corinth) and his letter to the Corinthians? I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

And, yes, he did indeed cast out a spirit of divination. I wholeheartedly believe people were, can be, and are today possessed by demons. I do however notice that he simply cast the demon out, and did not get involved in counselling her about past traumas, a bad childhood, or "opening doors".

I do not at all deny the spiritual realm. I just think you and I have may have some slightly different understandings as to what all is involved in the spiritual realm. So I think we are sort of talking past each other in some ways, not fully understanding what each other is saying. For example, you mentioned we have problems in the church and are seeking physical answers instead of spiritual. Let me show you something to help you better understand what I'm trying to get at:

In Romans chapter 8, Paul talks about the difference between a carnal, fleshly mind, and a spiritual mind. In verses 4-9 he identifies the key distinction between the two: submission to and obedience to the law of God. So I read that and I think "A carnal solution to church problems would be a solution NOT based on and found in God's Word, something like pop psychology or worldly ways of addressing things. But a spiritual solution involves going to the Word and putting it into practice, led by the Holy Ghost into true genuine obedience to the commandments of God."

In other words, an adulterer is told to repent and get right with Jesus. THAT is a spiritual solution to his problem. A church that has adultery in its midst? The spiritual solution involves Biblical church discipline of the offenders (like in 1 Cor 5). A carnal solution to either scenarios might focus instead on "counselling" from worldly psychology, or even just tolerating the sin by just preaching against it instead of actually doing what scripture says to do about it (warn, then excommunicate and shun the unrepentant). A spiritual solution recognises that an unrepentant sinner cannot obey God, they need to be converted and be filled with the Spirit of Christ, or else be put out of the church.

So I do not see in Scripture that spirituality is limited to just dealing with and casting out demons and such. It goes way deeper than that. And I think a lot of the problems we have in the movement are due to not fully understanding the depths of the subject as revealed in Scripture.

For example, curses are real. But they aren't just about some goofball sticking pins in a doll trying to "hex" somebody. Curses stream out across the land every hour from the main stream media, Hellyweird, the so called news, out from the podiums of politicians, printed in the newspapers, etc. People do not recognise them, and therefore don't know the solution, because they do not understand Biblically how curses work, and what they are.

[Esaias]

Not sure why my post got doubled?