Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Foyer > The Welcome Mat
Facebook

Notices

The Welcome Mat Welcoming New Members! Are you new to AFF? Here's a forum where you can report in and introduce yourself!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 12-13-2013, 10:34 AM
ILG's Avatar
ILG ILG is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,379
Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometown guy View Post
Lol.. I think the rule around here is that You are only allowed to question the motives of the conservative pastors...
I think that all pastors motives are allowed to be questioned (along with everyone else's motives.) I'm just saying that all sides should be viewed when it comes to trying to assess motive.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb

When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-13-2013, 10:42 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 7,946
Re: Back with some new perspective

IF what we believe is truth... then truth should be able to stand the test of questioning... right?

What difference does it make "when" he started to question what he believed, as long as he began to study it for himself?

And if he was studying to find truth, shouldn't truth be able to stand and defend itself against any questioning?

IF we are not allowed to question and hold up to the light the things we believe as truth, how can we know they are truth, unless we question?

This kind of mentality where you "don't question, just believe" is exactly where the RCC got their power and control...
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:11 AM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,749
Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
What difference does it make "when" he started to question what he believed, as long as he began to study it for himself?
It makes a difference when the organization with which you're licensed makes this one of the key pillars of the org, next to the Godhead and Acts 238. It makes a difference when it's done only after being questioned by well educated people. This should have been studied and done during the application process for licensing. I'll acknowledge, unfortunately some Pastors are lazy and don't really study for themselves until they're forced to. Perhaps this is one such Pastor.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:18 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: chasin Grace
Posts: 9,594
Re: Back with some new perspective

Wadr, i would suggest that it is the very act of 'organizing' and licensing that is at fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Does God have an organization?
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:52 PM
Roxanne Murphy's Avatar
Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
Recovering Pharisee


 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 136
Re: Back with some new perspective

Okay, apparently my initial attempt at brevity caused confusion in some minds, and my attempt to clarify wasn't helpful to some. My apologies. Let me try to make this very, very simple in hopes that it will help (albeit I do have my doubts).
So, here is my pastor, a 3rd generation oneness Pentecostal PK/MK, trained and taught 'doctrine' in a oneness Pentecostal church (a big, well known church that trains many for ministry in their own proprietary Bible school). This is all he has ever known, and the culture relies heavily on faith in the authority of leadership to properly interpret and apply God's Word to guide the saints to live for God. Because you are steeped in this holiness culture, you see the scriptures through the filters the culture provides. You are taught to find ways to make the scripture fit the teaching, and when on tenuous ground, you default to the authority of the pastor/bishop/elder/general board.....and trust that God has given these men understanding beyond what He gives to everybody else.
Anyway, being a well educated person himself in a secular college after his Bible school days, he did begin to study and dig into what the scripture does and does not say about a lot of things, 'holiness standards' included.
What was missed by a few folks in my first post was a very important defining phrase that came immediately after "well educated people": who were seeing the Word of God through eyes and hearts not previously influenced by the 'holiness' culture that our church had, compliments of the denomination to which we belonged.
This circumstance was not the catalyst to studying the scriptures, that was already happening for quite a while. Rather, it was the point where, in honesty and transparency of heart, he chose to act upon what he was already seeing from his studies.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:52 PM
rgcraig's Avatar
rgcraig rgcraig is offline
My Family!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 31,786
Wow, just wow'
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:59 PM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,829
Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Well, if you are pastoring you are not going to preach against what your organization teaches unless you are very sure you are right. So, there would be a time between the questioning and the taking of a stand that he probably wasn't preaching it much but just quietly questioning and living it.
I do not preach what I do not believe.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-13-2013, 02:29 PM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,749
Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Okay, apparently my initial attempt at brevity caused confusion in some minds, and my attempt to clarify wasn't helpful to some. My apologies. Let me try to make this very, very simple in hopes that it will help (albeit I do have my doubts).
So, here is my pastor, a 3rd generation oneness Pentecostal PK/MK, trained and taught 'doctrine' in a oneness Pentecostal church (a big, well known church that trains many for ministry in their own proprietary Bible school). This is all he has ever known, and the culture relies heavily on faith in the authority of leadership to properly interpret and apply God's Word to guide the saints to live for God. Because you are steeped in this holiness culture, you see the scriptures through the filters the culture provides. You are taught to find ways to make the scripture fit the teaching, and when on tenuous ground, you default to the authority of the pastor/bishop/elder/general board.....and trust that God has given these men understanding beyond what He gives to everybody else.
Anyway, being a well educated person himself in a secular college after his Bible school days, he did begin to study and dig into what the scripture does and does not say about a lot of things, 'holiness standards' included.
What was missed by a few folks in my first post was a very important defining phrase that came immediately after "well educated people": who were seeing the Word of God through eyes and hearts not previously influenced by the 'holiness' culture that our church had, compliments of the denomination to which we belonged.
This circumstance was not the catalyst to studying the scriptures, that was already happening for quite a while. Rather, it was the point where, in honesty and transparency of heart, he chose to act upon what he was already seeing from his studies.
Okay, so the first post was incorrect in the timeline you gave. He didn't "set out" to study after the well educated questions started coming; rather, he was already well into the process and you simply miswrote the timeline.

I was also a 3rd gen UPC PK, trained and taught in the UPC doctrine all my formative years in the church ACE school - complete with the UPCI "Pentecostal Doctrine" textbooks; though, I wasn't a mindless robot who believed everything without studying myself.

It's sad the number of ministers, especially Pastors, who admit they never have studied standards or other doctrinal issues for themselves, instead relying on what they were spoon-fed.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-13-2013, 02:49 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,680
Re: Back with some new perspective

I wasn't raised in any Church
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-13-2013, 03:02 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: chasin Grace
Posts: 9,594
Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I do not preach what I do not believe.
Amen. Begs the Q, "Do you then preach what you believe, and they do not believe?"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From My Perspective Hoovie Fellowship Hall 26 10-03-2010 03:07 PM
Perspective... Digging4Truth Fellowship Hall 0 12-23-2008 08:32 AM
From The Perspective of a Liberal stmatthew Fellowship Hall 21 01-31-2008 10:36 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by n david
- by jfrog

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.