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  #31  
Old 12-12-2013, 05:22 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
I take it the insinuation must be that he had ulterior motives, such as wanting a larger congregation, and that is why he changed his views. Well, I'll let Roxanne answer the question but I just want to say that the two may have nothing at all to do with each other.
I did not insinuate that at all. I simply asked why this was never seen as important before? It may truely be that the two are 100% unrelated. My question is simply why did know one invovled ever feel the need to draw closer to God through a study of God's word in what God expects of us?
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2013, 06:14 PM
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Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

And ILG, I am happy to clarify (or just provide more material for misinterpretation, as the case may be). Thank you for your gracious welcome back. I am certainly not deserving of it as I was a terror sometimes in the past.

Anyway, I believe I mentioned that for a good while previous to my pastor beginning a Bible study in his home that grew into a daughter work, he and his wife, my husband, our youth pastor and his wife, were looking at a lot of things because the methods that we were using to try to reach our area were not working. I don't know how the climate is spiritually elsewhere in this United States of America, but I do know that in the Pacific Northwest, people are very 'independently spiritual' and are not very likely to visit a church just because somebody left a flyer on their door or a coworker or neighbor invited them to a special service. What many people DO respond to, as the home Bible study/daughter work showed us, is that relationship that is built on trust. In fact, our church format currently is that we have one service in a school gymnasium on Sunday, and during the week, we have house meetings in different areas. My husband leads one of these house meetings and there are several people who are pretty faithful to those meetings, and God is working in their lives in some amazing ways, yet they have been to a Sunday church service less than a dozen times over the past 2 - 3 years. These are people who have good relationships with people in our church, and then they in turn bring others who have good relationships with them.
So, the standard 'outreach' model was not working for our church. And at the same time, separately from the church outreach focus, my pastor was also doing a lot of personal study about just how Biblical these 'holiness standards' were; research beyond David Bernard's "In Search of Holiness" into church history, original Greek texts, etc. He is a very careful man, a good Christian man, and a good pastor with a heart to care for the people in our church, so he wasn't looking for reasons to 'throw everything out' or 'go charismatic' (don't you just love that catch all perjorative label?). He, too, comes from a culture of 'holiness', in fact, before he came to pastor our small church, he was the assistant pastor in a very big church that was part of founding the WPF.
So, these two things, my pastor's personal study and research, and our church's growth, happened at the same time. When my pastor came to our church, he didn't need to 'preach/teach standards'. He inherited a group that already followed these things.
His views were already changing, and likely we would have seen a more gradual change, but when asked an honest question, he felt he could no longer honestly do the scripture hokey pokey and feed these new souls tradition labelled as doctrine.
I also find the snide comments about money rather telling, because these very rumors have been circulated about my pastor and about our church by 'ministering brethren' who never once actually called to ask what was really going on. And I think I will end this part of the story here and let the Righteous Judge handle those who have passed around such lies.
Back to more of my story later.
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2013, 06:16 PM
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Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
I think you're missing the point in here.

You're totally missing the context of this post big time. This church according to the poster had not been much active in evangelizing those outside their church. In an effort to do using honest biblical approach, the scale began to fall off the pastor's eyes.

Maybe you can blame the Pastor for preaching the standards all these years without him looking for scriptural support, but at least give him credit for being honest after finding out and not just signing the affirmation docs as some do even though they do not believe it's biblical.
Thank you, TGBTG, for reading and understanding my post!
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2013, 06:32 PM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I did not insinuate that at all. I simply asked why this was never seen as important before? It may truely be that the two are 100% unrelated. My question is simply why did know one invovled ever feel the need to draw closer to God through a study of God's word in what God expects of us?
Why do you suppose they didn't?
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:20 PM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

I thank you Mrs. Murphy for sharing your story. Continue to let God guide you through prayer and His word. Don't let the narrow minded ones who are still bound try to discredit your revelations by slinging mud all while assuming you're lost or have been spiritually seduced.

BTW, I'm a recovering pharisee too that has hurt way too many people over the years.
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:32 AM
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The Mrs The Mrs is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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  #37  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:51 AM
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Why do you suppose they didn't?
Let me rephrase my comment. Why did it take the pastor so long to begin questioning what he believed? If he was already questioning things how could he continue to preach them as truth if he was not sure of the validity of those issues? I yearly do not have I'll intentions. Really when it comes right down to it I guess it doesn't matter what my questions are because I will not be the posters judge or her pastors judge. Though I may and do strongly disagree with them on this topic God has given each person thought to choose for themselves the path they will follow. This does not mean all paths are correct just each has that God given right. If I came across as making accusations I apologize. I think you are wrong but it is your right. I can and will disagree but I should not be rude.
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:55 AM
Sasha Sasha is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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There's that smiley I was looking for! LOL!
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2013, 06:43 AM
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Harmony Harmony is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Welcome back Roxanne! I have to admit I am very surprised you have joined us recovering Pharisees. You and I grew up in similar circles.

The longer I have been out of the UPC I find myself asking, why did it take me so long to find truth. I am a UPC PK and believed everything taught with every fiber of my being. It was God who began to work on my heart and thought process. I think it was a process of three years before I actually left because I was so afraid of being lost.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2013, 07:48 AM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Let me rephrase my comment. Why did it take the pastor so long to begin questioning what he believed? If he was already questioning things how could he continue to preach them as truth if he was not sure of the validity of those issues? I yearly do not have I'll intentions. Really when it comes right down to it I guess it doesn't matter what my questions are because I will not be the posters judge or her pastors judge. Though I may and do strongly disagree with them on this topic God has given each person thought to choose for themselves the path they will follow. This does not mean all paths are correct just each has that God given right. If I came across as making accusations I apologize. I think you are wrong but it is your right. I can and will disagree but I should not be rude.
Well, if you are pastoring you are not going to preach against what your organization teaches unless you are very sure you are right. So, there would be a time between the questioning and the taking of a stand that he probably wasn't preaching it much but just quietly questioning and living it.
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