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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #391  
Old 09-19-2022, 01:36 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Easy: Doctrine is teaching, if you teach it is doctrine.
You are distorting things again. DOCTRINE OF TITHES in your mind is Old Covenant teaching about tithes. THAT is what I was referring to. If one teaches about giving that includes ten percent, one is not necessarily teaching the OLD COVENANT DOCTRINE of tithes. Others see this point, why can't you?
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  #392  
Old 09-19-2022, 02:32 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Easy: Doctrine is teaching, if you teach it is doctrine.
If I teach the church that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, is that false doctrine?

If I then say, we can (not must) tithe of our monetary increase to support the ministry of the local church, I fail to understand how that is a doctrine.

It is merely a method of giving among many, but it does have biblical background that is not just imagined out of thin air.

I don’t believe we are required to observe the Sabbath, but I still believe we have liberty to do so. It is necessary to teach the Sabbath as biblical history and as a forshadowment of the things to come. There is a moral obligation to not oppress people to work without giving periods of rest that can still be understood from the Sabbath. Which is the reason we have labor laws in the U.S.

Same thing with tithing monetary gains, we aren’t lawfully bound to give 10%. Although, we are at liberty to do so and it is beneficial. If a person is unable or just doesn’t feel good about it (feel it is bondage), they have the liberty to decide for themselves how and when to give.

That is not false doctrine. I understand that most apostolic churches may not teach it that way. Instead of making enemies we should be praying for the Lord to lead them into truth on the subject. There is another extreme that is just as bad on the other side of the spectrum and that is selfishness and greed. Some will not give anything and tithing is resented because they refuse to give.

Last edited by good samaritan; 09-19-2022 at 02:40 PM.
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  #393  
Old 09-19-2022, 07:26 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
You are distorting things again. DOCTRINE OF TITHES in your mind is Old Covenant teaching about tithes. THAT is what I was referring to. If one teaches about giving that includes ten percent, one is not necessarily teaching the OLD COVENANT DOCTRINE of tithes. Others see this point, why can't you?
"Officer, I was not speeding, I was just pushing the gas pedal to the floor... technically..."
If quack like a duck... Seriously, you must have gotten the idea of 10% from Ted Cruz flat tax plan, I guess.

Last edited by coksiw; 09-19-2022 at 07:31 PM.
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  #394  
Old 09-19-2022, 07:30 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
If I teach the church that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, is that false doctrine?

If I then say, we can (not must) tithe of our monetary increase to support the ministry of the local church, I fail to understand how that is a doctrine.

It is merely a method of giving among many, but it does have biblical background that is not just imagined out of thin air.

I don’t believe we are required to observe the Sabbath, but I still believe we have liberty to do so. It is necessary to teach the Sabbath as biblical history and as a forshadowment of the things to come. There is a moral obligation to not oppress people to work without giving periods of rest that can still be understood from the Sabbath. Which is the reason we have labor laws in the U.S.

Same thing with tithing monetary gains, we aren’t lawfully bound to give 10%. Although, we are at liberty to do so and it is beneficial. If a person is unable or just doesn’t feel good about it (feel it is bondage), they have the liberty to decide for themselves how and when to give.

That is not false doctrine. I understand that most apostolic churches may not teach it that way. Instead of making enemies we should be praying for the Lord to lead them into truth on the subject. There is another extreme that is just as bad on the other side of the spectrum and that is selfishness and greed. Some will not give anything and tithing is resented because they refuse to give.
So you are teaching it. With a soft stand, yes, as a "recommendation", or a "guideline", but still it is a gross misapplication of the OT texts, which is then a false teaching. You are persuading people whether openly or with hints to do an action based on false premises, false teaching.
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  #395  
Old 09-19-2022, 09:07 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
"Officer, I was not speeding, I was just pushing the gas pedal to the floor... technically..."
If quack like a duck... Seriously, you must have gotten the idea of 10% from Ted Cruz flat tax plan, I guess.
I've had enough of wasting time with you on this. Lord, help us. I've never seen so much twisting of intentions. Your political reference applies in ways you are not even seeing. You repeatedly misread my words and accused me of missing points that I distinctly stated in posts before you made those accusations. And now this.

More gaslighting.

You refuse to give an exegesis of 1 Cor 9 and call it wasting time, but you sure "waste your time" repeatedly sending these posts that insist I am being dishonest when I flatly state I am not, as if to gaslight me down to ruin and see you win an argument. Quack like a duck, indeed!
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Last edited by mfblume; 09-19-2022 at 09:17 PM.
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  #396  
Old 09-19-2022, 09:08 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
If I teach the church that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, is that false doctrine?

If I then say, we can (not must) tithe of our monetary increase to support the ministry of the local church, I fail to understand how that is a doctrine.

It is merely a method of giving among many, but it does have biblical background that is not just imagined out of thin air.

I donít believe we are required to observe the Sabbath, but I still believe we have liberty to do so. It is necessary to teach the Sabbath as biblical history and as a forshadowment of the things to come. There is a moral obligation to not oppress people to work without giving periods of rest that can still be understood from the Sabbath. Which is the reason we have labor laws in the U.S.

Same thing with tithing monetary gains, we arenít lawfully bound to give 10%. Although, we are at liberty to do so and it is beneficial. If a person is unable or just doesnít feel good about it (feel it is bondage), they have the liberty to decide for themselves how and when to give.

That is not false doctrine. I understand that most apostolic churches may not teach it that way. Instead of making enemies we should be praying for the Lord to lead them into truth on the subject. There is another extreme that is just as bad on the other side of the spectrum and that is selfishness and greed. Some will not give anything and tithing is resented because they refuse to give.
It's a waste of time, bro. He's not reading what you are saying. A made-up mind is a closed mind and you cannot reason with it.
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  #397  
Old 09-20-2022, 07:10 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I've had enough of wasting time with you on this. Lord, help us. I've never seen so much twisting of intentions. Your political reference applies in ways you are not even seeing. You repeatedly misread my words and accused me of missing points that I distinctly stated in posts before you made those accusations. And now this.

More gaslighting.

You refuse to give an exegesis of 1 Cor 9 and call it wasting time, but you sure "waste your time" repeatedly sending these posts that insist I am being dishonest when I flatly state I am not, as if to gaslight me down to ruin and see you win an argument. Quack like a duck, indeed!
Kind of reminds me of another person a few years ago by the name of Sean
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  #398  
Old 09-20-2022, 08:50 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by loran adkins View Post
Kind of reminds me of another person a few years ago by the name of Sean
You haven't read this threads in detail then. I have shown with historical facts and Bible, and others as well. The 1 Cor 9 is talking about is just an anchor he is holding to argue (or show off his knowledge or something, who knows), and provoke a discussion on a topic which is already answered. There have been 40 pages at this point of discussion, sir. See first why this thread ended up the way it ended up.

The problem with those two that insist I don't listen is that I'm calling them out for what it is and they don't want to admit it.

You are just picking sides and using a name synonymous of some characteristics to ... never mind. Let's leave it like that.
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  #399  
Old 09-20-2022, 10:33 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

The only thing disproved is that we are not under the law, therefore we aren’t commanded to tithe. Which is not what anyone has been saying to begin with. If a congregation chooses to have church on Sunday or tithe they have liberty to do so. If it is a legality for membership or salvational, then I agree it becomes unscriptural.

Another subject to consider, is if you are a part of a assembly that holds beliefs that are eisegetical interpretation, but doesn’t relate to salvation is there a time that we seek to keep unity. For example I would not go around trying to convince another apostolic church congregation my views on tithing. If we are nitpicking enough, people could never stay at any church long. As confident as each of us are, we are capable of misunderstanding the scripture.
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  #400  
Old 09-20-2022, 03:21 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
The only thing disproved is that we are not under the law, therefore we arenít commanded to tithe.
That is not what "not under the law" means. That is (one of) the root(s) of your erroneous belief system. Not being under the law does NOT mean "not commanded" to do something.
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