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View Poll Results: Do you support marriage privatization?
Yes. 9 81.82%
No. 2 18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 06-03-2018, 04:11 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
For me, despite the oooz and the aahhs. It remaiins a Voluntary contract making secular government the overseer. There is no penalty for not having a marriage license (contract) in Indiana.



It's a money making scam for secular government and it's lawyers. Some estimates are as high as 50.000.000.000 dollar industry.



It has wrecked havoc on the MAN and children as well.
If the state intervenes in a marriage (such as in a divorce, custody issue, CPS, etc), it never points to the marriag license as a contract granting the state anything it doesn't already claim. The marriage license is a revenue stream, while also providing a guarantee that the proposed marriage will be recognized by the state as valid (within reason).

Not having a license confers no benefit to the couple except in their own mind/conscience. There is no legal proceeding whereby a couple or individual can say "I have no marriage license" as an estoppel to state actions or authority.
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  #52  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:13 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If the state intervenes in a marriage (such as in a divorce, custody issue, CPS, etc), it never points to the marriag license as a contract granting the state anything it doesn't already claim. The marriage license is a revenue stream, while also providing a guarantee that the proposed marriage will be recognized by the state as valid (within reason).

Not having a license confers no benefit to the couple except in their own mind/conscience. There is no legal proceeding whereby a couple or individual can say "I have no marriage license" as an estoppel to state actions or authority.

The couple can have their own contract concerning property as they could with a contract with the government (pre-nup).



What are we to do without the hammer of authority in our lives?



The state cannot claim jurisdiction over the dividing of property.
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  #53  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:51 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
The couple can have their own contract concerning property as they could with a contract with the government (pre-nup).



What are we to do without the hammer of authority in our lives?



The state cannot claim jurisdiction over the dividing of property.
The state gets jurisdiction because one of the parties FILES SUIT in a divorce. In the case of death a person claiming property held in someone else's name must FILE SUIT to get authorization to dispose of said property.

And in NEITHER case does a marriage license even enter the picture.

Again, at NO TIME will the state ever say "Hey, you got a marriage license therefore we have the authorisation to do this or that."
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  #54  
Old 06-08-2018, 03:45 PM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Not having a license confers no benefit to the couple except in their own mind/conscience. There is no legal proceeding whereby a couple or individual can say "I have no marriage license" as an estoppel to state actions or authority.
Actually, it provides great benefit.

If your spouse looses faith and chooses to leave the union to go gallivanting around with another person, and all property agreements are in place, they can just leave with what is legally theirs. You don't have to pay an attorney thousands of dollars to protect your interests or assets, you've already locked all personal property and assets in under your sole ownership. The unfaithful spouse is also not legally entitled to any of your Social Security.

The break is clean and swift. And you can lock the door behind them and call it a night, get up the next morning, and start your new life without them. You've legally protected yourself.

As Paul said,
1 Corinthians 7:15 (ESV)
15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
The unbelieving or unfaithful can just leave, the believer is no longer bound in any way to the relationship.

In addition, Paul admonished Christians not to settle matters in the courts of the unbelievers:
I Corinthians 6:1-8 (ESV)
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
By taking private ownership of your marriage, you can handle any dispute or divorce in house, among the saints. And as said before, if the unbelieving departs, you can just let them go, being unbound to the union any longer.

Paul never said, hire and attorney and go to court to settle a divorce. Paul actually admonished us to avoid unbelieving courts, and advised that we just allow the unbelieving to depart. This is only possible if one establishes their union privately without involving the state.

So, not having a civil marriage license filed with the state for certification of civil marriage is of great value in protecting one's assets and should one wish to live according to the Scriptures.

But your statement has left me wondering... with no-fault divorce laws in play... what protections does having a "civil marriage" provide that a privately established union can't provide? What security does a civil marriage provide that is greater than what we have in a union established after the manner of the Quakers?

I know you lose the ability to file taxes jointly. But that's really all I can see that is truly of relevance. In fact, when one considers how the civil statutes work in no-fault divorce states, civil marriage leaves one with more liabilities than protections. Because the courts don't care who is at fault or who did what, unless it was criminal. They will simply liquidate assets, divide things as evenly as possible, and grant spousal support to ensure that even an offending spouse maintains their current standard of living on your dime.

If no-fault divorce statutes were not in play, and fault had to be determined by the courts to reward damages, property, and rights regarding children, I'd say civil marriage was indeed a safe way to go. But not any more. The state has made civil marriage the single greatest gamble in one's lifetime.

We know from what God said, the state has nothing to do with uniting a man and woman in marriage...
Matthew 19:6 (ESV)
"So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Here, we see that God alone joins a man and woman in marriage. And spiritually speaking, no human authority can establish or dissolve such a union.

It is better to obey God than men.

Last edited by Aquila; 06-08-2018 at 04:10 PM.
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  #55  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:44 AM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,729
Thumbs up Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Actually, it provides great benefit.

If your spouse looses faith and chooses to leave the union to go gallivanting around with another person, and all property agreements are in place, they can just leave with what is legally theirs. You don't have to pay an attorney thousands of dollars to protect your interests or assets, you've already locked all personal property and assets in under your sole ownership. The unfaithful spouse is also not legally entitled to any of your Social Security.

The break is clean and swift. And you can lock the door behind them and call it a night, get up the next morning, and start your new life without them. You've legally protected yourself.

As Paul said,
1 Corinthians 7:15 (ESV)
15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
The unbelieving or unfaithful can just leave, the believer is no longer bound in any way to the relationship.

In addition, Paul admonished Christians not to settle matters in the courts of the unbelievers:
I Corinthians 6:1-8 (ESV)
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
By taking private ownership of your marriage, you can handle any dispute or divorce in house, among the saints. And as said before, if the unbelieving departs, you can just let them go, being unbound to the union any longer.

Paul never said, hire and attorney and go to court to settle a divorce. Paul actually admonished us to avoid unbelieving courts, and advised that we just allow the unbelieving to depart. This is only possible if one establishes their union privately without involving the state.

So, not having a civil marriage license filed with the state for certification of civil marriage is of great value in protecting one's assets and should one wish to live according to the Scriptures.

But your statement has left me wondering... with no-fault divorce laws in play... what protections does having a "civil marriage" provide that a privately established union can't provide? What security does a civil marriage provide that is greater than what we have in a union established after the manner of the Quakers?

I know you lose the ability to file taxes jointly. But that's really all I can see that is truly of relevance. In fact, when one considers how the civil statutes work in no-fault divorce states, civil marriage leaves one with more liabilities than protections. Because the courts don't care who is at fault or who did what, unless it was criminal. They will simply liquidate assets, divide things as evenly as possible, and grant spousal support to ensure that even an offending spouse maintains their current standard of living on your dime.

If no-fault divorce statutes were not in play, and fault had to be determined by the courts to reward damages, property, and rights regarding children, I'd say civil marriage was indeed a safe way to go. But not any more. The state has made civil marriage the single greatest gamble in one's lifetime.

We know from what God said, the state has nothing to do with uniting a man and woman in marriage...
Matthew 19:6 (ESV)
"So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Here, we see that God alone joins a man and woman in marriage. And spiritually speaking, no human authority can establish or dissolve such a union.

It is better to obey God than men.

Very well said.
__________________


http://www.paganchristianity.org


Go here on tithing----->

http://www.nomoretithing.org/nmt_links.htm

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

If it is God's will for your illness then why are you seeking medical attention to get rid of it?
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  #56  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:13 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 16,609
Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Actually, it provides great benefit.

If your spouse looses faith and chooses to leave the union to go gallivanting around with another person, and all property agreements are in place, they can just leave with what is legally theirs. You don't have to pay an attorney thousands of dollars to protect your interests or assets, you've already locked all personal property and assets in under your sole ownership. The unfaithful spouse is also not legally entitled to any of your Social Security.

The break is clean and swift. And you can lock the door behind them and call it a night, get up the next morning, and start your new life without them. You've legally protected yourself.

As Paul said,
1 Corinthians 7:15 (ESV)
15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
The unbelieving or unfaithful can just leave, the believer is no longer bound in any way to the relationship.

In addition, Paul admonished Christians not to settle matters in the courts of the unbelievers:
I Corinthians 6:1-8 (ESV)
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
By taking private ownership of your marriage, you can handle any dispute or divorce in house, among the saints. And as said before, if the unbelieving departs, you can just let them go, being unbound to the union any longer.

Paul never said, hire and attorney and go to court to settle a divorce. Paul actually admonished us to avoid unbelieving courts, and advised that we just allow the unbelieving to depart. This is only possible if one establishes their union privately without involving the state.

So, not having a civil marriage license filed with the state for certification of civil marriage is of great value in protecting one's assets and should one wish to live according to the Scriptures.

But your statement has left me wondering... with no-fault divorce laws in play... what protections does having a "civil marriage" provide that a privately established union can't provide? What security does a civil marriage provide that is greater than what we have in a union established after the manner of the Quakers?

I know you lose the ability to file taxes jointly. But that's really all I can see that is truly of relevance. In fact, when one considers how the civil statutes work in no-fault divorce states, civil marriage leaves one with more liabilities than protections. Because the courts don't care who is at fault or who did what, unless it was criminal. They will simply liquidate assets, divide things as evenly as possible, and grant spousal support to ensure that even an offending spouse maintains their current standard of living on your dime.

If no-fault divorce statutes were not in play, and fault had to be determined by the courts to reward damages, property, and rights regarding children, I'd say civil marriage was indeed a safe way to go. But not any more. The state has made civil marriage the single greatest gamble in one's lifetime.

We know from what God said, the state has nothing to do with uniting a man and woman in marriage...
Matthew 19:6 (ESV)
"So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Here, we see that God alone joins a man and woman in marriage. And spiritually speaking, no human authority can establish or dissolve such a union.

It is better to obey God than men.
Obviously you have no idea what's being discussed. A LICENSE or lack thereof confers no benefit to the couple except it guarantees the state recognizes their marriage.

But you seem oblivious to the fact that one can be married without a license, as well as the more pertinent fact that you can have a license and NEVER GET MARRIED.

Hello? Anybody reading this?

If you have a marriage recognized as valid, even a Quaker Oats common law marriage, with no license, and you divorce, you will be petitioning the court. There is no common law divorce. The marriage LICENSE IS IRRELEVENT WHEN IT COMES TO A DIVORCE.

Hopefully nobody listens to you when it comes to legal advice.
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Instead of google, use www.yandex.com


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

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  #57  
Old 06-11-2018, 06:22 AM
Aquila's Avatar
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 29,329
Re: Marriage Privatization:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Obviously you have no idea what's being discussed. A LICENSE or lack thereof confers no benefit to the couple except it guarantees the state recognizes their marriage.

But you seem oblivious to the fact that one can be married without a license, as well as the more pertinent fact that you can have a license and NEVER GET MARRIED.

Hello? Anybody reading this?

If you have a marriage recognized as valid, even a Quaker Oats common law marriage, with no license, and you divorce, you will be petitioning the court. There is no common law divorce. The marriage LICENSE IS IRRELEVENT WHEN IT COMES TO A DIVORCE.

Hopefully nobody listens to you when it comes to legal advice.
Um, I hope nobody listens to your legal advice about this, because laws on this differ by state.

We did seek legal advice. Here's how it was broken down to us... In Ohio, common law marriage was abolished in 1991. The only marriages recognized by the courts are civil marriages. One can petition the court to recognize a marriage, but the courts would be hard pressed to do this seeing how common law marriage was abolished and there are no statutes of dealing with this outside of civil union. Also, if a couple has a properly worded, notarized, and filed cohabitation agreement delineating property ownership, and that agreement has been kept and abided by, the court has no grounds upon which to intervene. The only area that the courts would still have authority would be with regards to child custody. But if the couple has no children between the two of them, child custody isn't a factor, so the court again has no grounds upon which to intervene. However, court involvement can be limited even with regards to child custody if a couple has established an agreed upon child custody and visitation agreement. The court would only be necessary to make it official should the parents decide to make it so.

So, if you're giving legal advice... you might want to at least start with telling people that laws differ by state.

Last edited by Aquila; 06-11-2018 at 06:25 AM.
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  #58  
Old 06-11-2018, 06:32 AM
Aquila's Avatar
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Marriage Privatization:

Why to Holy Ghost filled men talk to others like this?

Quote:
Obviously you have no idea what's being discussed...

Quote:
But you seem oblivious to the fact that...
Why not just ask questions and actually talk about an issue without the condescension?
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