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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 08-12-2021, 12:19 PM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The emboldened part above doesn't ring true to me.

I see Psalm 110:1 being fulfilled, not as a means of destruction, but of salvation.

Consider:

Jesus is quoted in more than one place teaching us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27 & 35).

Is He not the standard? Are we expected to love our enemies, but Christ is exempt from His own teaching (See and compare, e.g. Romans 12:20)?

Secondly, Paul makes the following claims:

Romans 5:10,



Colossians 1:21,



Paul is pretty clear than humanity in general, at least at the first, are enemies of Christ and God, but individually, across the expanse of time, as the Gospel is heralded, and people receive and obey it, those who were once Christ's enemies become His friends, even His brothers, members of His family and the household of God.

This being the case, compare the footstool language of Psalm 110:1 with the following verses:

1 Chronicles 28:2,



Psalm 99:5,



Psalm 132:7,



Lamentations 2:1,



All four of these verses indicate that the footstool of the LORD is merely a reference for the temple. Lamentations 2:1, especially, is unmistakably so.

Is it not therefore better to understand the prophecy of Psalm 110:1 in this light, that the making of, or turning of, the Messiah's enemies into His footstool by YHVH, is the process of conversion through the Gospel whereby enemies of the Lord are brought into the faith and saved from the wrath to come?

Then, it isn't about the destruction of His enemies, and the loss of their souls in Hell, but rather, about the salvation of His enemies, by the atoning blood shed at the cross, and the gaining of their souls for life everlasting in the New Jerusalem.

That seems more in line with a message of hope and reconciliation. If Psalm 110:1 is about destruction, it looks more like a message of despair and retaliation, such as you appear to have posited it.

At least to me.
As Esaias said, I got my thought from 1 Cor 15:25.

1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

He rules until he has put all enemies under his feet, and sits until all enemies are under his feet. The putting of death under his feet is the destruction of death.

He is ruling for salvation as well! But the aspect of putting enemies under his feet is not the saving part, but the destroying part.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2021, 12:33 PM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by mont.preterist View Post
Mblume, I like the thread and I am not trying to contradict, i am just trying to find what Scripture that you used to get the 120 trumpeteers.

Thanks
Sure thing!

2 CHRON 5:7 And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the Lord unto his place, to the oracle of the house, into the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims:
8 For the cherubims spread forth their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.
9 And they drew out the staves of the ark, that the ends of the staves were seen from the ark before the oracle; but they were not seen without. And there it is unto this day.
10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.
11 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place: (for all the priests that were present were sanctified, and did not then wait by course:
12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets: )
13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord;
14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.
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  #23  
Old 08-13-2021, 05:13 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
As Esaias said, I got my thought from 1 Cor 15:25.

1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

He rules until he has put all enemies under his feet, and sits until all enemies are under his feet. The putting of death under his feet is the destruction of death.

He is ruling for salvation as well! But the aspect of putting enemies under his feet is not the saving part, but the destroying part.
If the putting of enemies under his feet is not the saving part, what do you make of the several references I shared which prove the OT writers commonly understood the reference to the LORD's footstool as His temple?

Is it not more accurate to understand the footstool reference in Psalm 110:1 as the Lord Jesus taking enemies under His wing through the gospel, and making them members of His body, the temple of the Holy Spirit?

I just don't see Jesus destroying anyone until after they die and are judged.

"I came not to destroy, but to save."

The everlasting destruction of the wicked who obey not the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) comes later, once they've already died, and are raised from the dead in the resurrection of shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2).

Is this not so? Do you see it differently?

Who are the enemies Jesus is subjugating under His feet, not to save, but to destroy? Can/Will you name them for us?

Aside from the Devil and other evil spirits, I don't see Jesus doing that to the people who He came to save. Not while they live, at least.
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  #24  
Old 08-13-2021, 11:55 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

It seems the "under the feet" part simply means Jesus subdues His enemies. The particular method (reconciation, destruction, etc) isn't defined by "under the feet". That would depend on the particular enemy involved.
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2021, 08:41 PM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
If the putting of enemies under his feet is not the saving part, what do you make of the several references I shared which prove the OT writers commonly understood the reference to the LORD's footstool as His temple?

Is it not more accurate to understand the footstool reference in Psalm 110:1 as the Lord Jesus taking enemies under His wing through the gospel, and making them members of His body, the temple of the Holy Spirit?

I just don't see Jesus destroying anyone until after they die and are judged.

"I came not to destroy, but to save."

The everlasting destruction of the wicked who obey not the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) comes later, once they've already died, and are raised from the dead in the resurrection of shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2).

Is this not so? Do you see it differently?

Who are the enemies Jesus is subjugating under His feet, not to save, but to destroy? Can/Will you name them for us?

Aside from the Devil and other evil spirits, I don't see Jesus doing that to the people who He came to save. Not while they live, at least.
When we read 1 Cor 15:25, we see death as the enemy that is last on the list for being placed beneath Christ's feet as his footstool. It's not placed "at the footstool", but it becomes part of the footstool.

I think there's a twofold difference here. 1. Becoming his footstool is not the same as worshipping at his footstool. 2. Also, can we compare the enemy of death to people who are enemies?

Death is certainly not something that will become saved. Therefore, I feel the references you made that involve the footstool are in a completely different bracket than the reference to Psalm 110:1.
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  #26  
Old 08-27-2021, 08:32 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This book was written to future believers since it was not written and/or copied for readers to read until many years after the events.
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